David Leavitt — David Leavitt thanked the chair and Ms. Jackson, then asked Andrea Jackson how long she has been selling the product, continuing a brief follow-up on her experience with it.
David Leavitt — Representative David Leavitt questioned the witness about the circumstances of the reported kratom-related harm, first asking whether the deaths involved natural kratom or products altered or combined with other substances, and then following up by referencing conflicting information about the Rossisi case and asking for clarification about the autopsy findings and timing of ingestion.
David Leavitt — Representative Leavitt asked whether law enforcement could manage the natural plant under more targeted laws, then clarified that his concern was specifically about the synthetic product rather than the natural one.
Crystal Prack — Next virtual witness called to testify.
Crystal Pyrak — Crystal Pyrak, a family physician from Coeur d'Alene speaking for the Idaho Academy of Family Physicians and herself, said she supports strong kratom legislation but cautioned the committee about unintended consequences. She then began describing a patient who gradually increased kratom use to six drinks per day and ultimately required hospitalization for withdrawal.
Dr. Crystal Pyrak — Dr. Crystal Pyrak testified that a sudden kratom prohibition could trigger withdrawal and push some patients toward fentanyl or other black market substances. She explained that scheduling kratom as Schedule I would amount to a complete ban with no access for Idahoans, and urged lawmakers to pursue a stepwise regulatory approach instead, including clear labeling, education, age restrictions, and content testing before considering any future ban.
Tyson Baker — Tyson Baker testified in favor of regulating kratom rather than prohibiting it. He argued that Idaho should adopt a Kratom Consumer Protection Act that preserves access while adding safeguards, including banning synthetic 7-hydroxy derivatives, requiring GMP standards, lab testing, approved labels, and age restrictions. He closed by urging the committee to choose regulation and protection over prohibition.
Laura Romney — Laura Romney, speaking for herself, testified that she is a long-term pain patient who has used daily kratom for years to manage trigeminal neuralgia and reduce her pain to a functional level. She explained that kratom helps her live and participate in the hearing, described using plain powder kratom in water, and warned that banning it could criminalize her pain management and push people toward black-market drugs, pain pills, fentanyl, or other more dangerous substances. She also noted concerns about 7-OH as a full opioid that can suppress breathing, and emphasized that kratom does not eliminate her pain but lowers it enough for her to function.
Robert Beiswenger — Robert Beiswenger asked Laura Romney what alternatives people would have if kratom were unavailable.
Robert Beiswenger — Asked what the punishment should be if kratom were classified as Schedule I.
Jordan Redman — Asked about the difference between whole leaf kratom and 7-OH levels.
Jordan Redman — Asked for clarification on the ratio between whole leaf kratom and 7-OH, and how the active ingredient compares.
Ms. Romney — Ms. Romney explained that natural kratom leaf contains no 7-OH in the leaf itself, though small amounts can develop as it dries. She then emphasized that 7-OH is far more potent than natural kratom, citing an example that only four tablets can represent an extremely strong dose compared with large amounts of powder. She also stated that she has never tried 7-OH and contrasted kratom’s extensive peer-reviewed safety research with the lack of such studies for 7-OH.
Lucas Cayler — Representative Cayler asked for clarification about the substance being discussed, specifically whether it was just a powder or simply ground-up leaves.
Mrs. Romney — Mrs. Romney explained and demonstrated that the substance is simply powder made from a dried leaf, noting that she had not mixed it with water because she was leaving for the airport, and then clarified again that it is just ground-up leaf powder.
Christopher Daudas / Christopher Diotis — Introduced as the next witness; the transcript contains a name discrepancy between the introduction and the witness's self-identification.
Christopher Diotis — Christopher Diotis, from Meridian, Idaho, identified himself as the owner of an e-commerce kratom brand and a 20-year kratom consumer. He said natural kratom has helped many people and warned that criminalizing it would harm patients, veterans, seniors, and families. He reiterated that he was speaking for himself as a long-time kratom consumer and identified his brand as Happy Hippo.
Ben Fuhriman — Asked the witness whom he represented.
Ben Fuhriman — Asked Coroner Sanchez to summarize her testimony about the issue.
Grayson Nabble / Grayson Abel — Introduced as the next witness, with a name discrepancy between the introduction and the witness's self-identification later in the transcript.
Grayson Abel — Grayson Abel, a toxicologist with TRC speaking on behalf of Dr. Dennis Postenbach, opened his testimony by identifying himself and then offering condolences to Ms. Keeley-Rastisi's family. He went on to argue that kratom is not a novel substance and emphasized its long history of use and study.
Ms. Rastisi — Referenced as the decedent whose death was being discussed.
Mr. Abel — Explained that 7-hydroxymitragynine occurs naturally in kratom at very low concentrations and that extract ratios vary by manufacturer.
Mr. Engel — Mr. Engel expressed strong support for regulating kratom, including setting limits on alkaloid content, requiring warning labels, and prohibiting adulteration—especially the addition of opioids. He reiterated that he supports regulation of kratom extract products and anti-adulteration rules.
Gina Rogers — Gina Rogers, from Rathdrum, Idaho, testified in opposition to Bill 864. She asked the committee to vote no and explained that plain-leaf kratom has been a helpful natural option in her wellness routine, distinguishing it from synthetic or altered 7-OH products.
Melanie Wolfe — Melanie Wolfe was introduced as a virtual witness and then testified that she uses kratom for chronic pain, arguing that inadequate treatment of chronic pain is part of the broader opioid crisis.
Allie Mathis — The committee announced Allie Mathis as the next virtual witness and then the chair invited her to begin testimony, asking her to state her name and who she represents before yielding the floor for her two minutes.
Ali Mathis — Ali Mathis testified in opposition to Bill 864, describing her severe rheumatoid arthritis and the irreversible damage it caused, the difficulty of daily functioning, and her experience with multiple prescription pain medications including opioids that did not adequately manage her pain. She said natural kratom has helped her control pain and improve her quality of life, and urged the committee not to ban it.
Shanti Sanchez — The committee introduced Shanti Sanchez as the next virtual witness.
Coroner Shantay Sanchez — Coroner Shantay Sanchez introduced herself as the Bonneville County Coroner’s Office representative and lead investigator in Ms. Restisi’s death. She explained that her office conducted a full death investigation, including scene documentation, toxicology, medication review, medical records review, and autopsy. Sanchez said she noticed a broader trend of increasing kratom-related fatalities and that the forensic pathologist determined Ms. Restisi’s official cause of death was kratom intoxication. She concluded by saying she wants changes in how kratom is regulated because of the risks associated with overconsumption and insufficient oversight.
Ms. Sanchez — Ms. Sanchez testified about kratom-related deaths in Bonneville County, explaining that the deaths she investigated involved kratom as the contributing substance and were determined by forensic pathologists. She said the cases she has seen involved pure kratom leaf or powder rather than 7-OH variants, and that she had not seen physical leaves in stomach contents but relied on other findings and medical history. She warned that people with seizure disorders or significant medical histories may be at greater risk, noted tolerance and prolonged use can lead to increased consumption, and described cases involving young adults, including a death at age 19 and another at 42. She also said kratom and 7-OH products are being marketed near schools and affecting juvenile probation and courts. In response to questions about policy, she argued that regulating only certain concentrations or allowing natural leaf products could create a false sense of safety, because all kratom products can be dangerous. She added that kratom is not detected in standard urine tests, making additional testing costly, and said autopsies in these cases can cost over $3,000. She concluded that her investigations have not shown the concentrated product to be the issue, that the cases have been tied to pure leaf, powdered concentrate, or powdered kratom, and that until safe, FDA-approved regulation exists, she believes a total ban is necessary.
Ilana Rubel — Representative Rubel asked whether the death involved kratom plant matter, concentrate, or 7-OH, and whether it could be distinguished from synthetic products.
Ilana Rubel — Said she wants more testimony, especially from health care providers, and more FDA study information before deciding.
Steven Tanner — Representative Steven Tanner questioned whether low-level kratom consumption could worsen or complicate an underlying condition, expressing concern about buildup and asking if the condition might have been survivable without kratom use.
Josh Wheeler — Representative Josh Wheeler asked Coroner Sanchez about how kratom products are affecting youth in Bonneville County, focusing on youth impacts from kratom use in the county.
Josh Wheeler — Representative Josh Wheeler asked the sheriff what deputies or school resource officers can do if students already have the product, then briefly interjected jokingly before apologizing to the chair, without shifting the discussion away from the same issue.
Marco Erickson — Representative Marco Erickson asked about the cost impact to Bonneville County, specifically whether there was any estimate of the county’s cost related to the substance being present and referenced youth on probation in that context.
Brianna Bodie — Brianna Bodie is introduced as the next witness to testify in person, with a follow-up clarification that she is in another room and should be brought into the hearing room.
Brianna Bodie — Brianna Bodie, a Boise resident, testified in support of responsible kratom regulation and against a full ban. She described her father’s military service, injuries, opioid use, and improvement after using kratom, and argued that kratom supports Idaho jobs, small businesses, and tax revenue. She urged lawmakers to adopt stricter guidelines such as testing, labeling, age restrictions, and consumer education, emphasizing that prohibition would not eliminate demand and would likely push use into unregulated markets.
Samuel Hulse — Announced as the next in-person witness.
Sam Holtz — Sheriff Sam Holtz identified himself as the Bonneville County Sheriff and spoke from his law-enforcement background about kratom as a growing problem in Idaho. He said kratom is creeping into schools, is being sold near high schools, and is unregulated, making it accessible to kids. Holtz argued that kratom behaves like an opioid, affects the same brain receptors, and has unknown interactions with other drugs, while also comparing it to Schedule I substances and emphasizing its danger and lack of accepted medical use. He urged Idaho to reject the product because it is harming children and fits the state’s anti-drug stance. In response to questions, he explained that law enforcement and school officials have limited options if students possess it now, with officers able to talk to kids but not effectively charge them under current law. He broadened the point by describing kratom as part of a larger community drug crisis, citing high opioid addiction in the jail population and saying the state is in a third opiate tragedy, while also referencing concerns about other illicit drug products reaching youth.
Coroner Sanchez — Referenced as having previously described similar concerns about kratom affecting youth.
Brandon Shippy — Asked Sheriff Holtz to elaborate on the 'creep' pattern and similarities to marijuana and vaping.
Sheriff Holtz — Sheriff Holtz argued that kratom is unsafe and especially harmful to young people, saying it should be classified as Schedule I immediately. He noted that the natural plant is currently unregulated and legally sold in convenience stores and vape shops, making it easily accessible. He also said penalties should be serious and left to the committee to determine, but tied to Schedule I treatment, and emphasized that addressing addiction should combine consequences with compassion and healing.
Tremaine Arnold — Tremaine Arnold was introduced as an in-person witness and then testified as president of Capitalist Tributing, urging lawmakers to preserve adult access to natural, non-synthetic kratom. He argued that people with cancer, chronic disease, and chronic pain should have options for relief and that access to kratom can help avoid street narcotics and synthetic opioids. He warned that bans do not work and would push consumers toward unsafe, unregulated online or foreign products, noting that his company operates in nine Western states. He concluded by supporting legislation that protects adult access to naturally derived kratom through licensed distributors and retailers.
Dr. Matt Larson — A psychiatrist whose letter supports classifying kratom as a Schedule I drug.
Dr. Keller — An emergency room physician and correctional care doctor who describes kratom as addictive and potentially deadly.
Luke Casilla — First witness called to testify, appearing virtually.
Luke Kassia — Luke Kassia, a drug and alcohol treatment provider in Canyon County, testified that he has seen a 225% increase in clients with kratom use disorder over two years. He said kratom withdrawal can resemble heroin and fentanyl withdrawal, argued that marketing kratom as a harm-reduction product is misleading, and urged the committee to stop the sale of kratom in Idaho.
Andrea Jackson — Andrea Jackson, president of Jackson Bevco, testified that her company has sold kratom responsibly for 15 years without injury or quality complaints. She described her safety practices, including requiring supplier testing from qualified labs, maintaining insurance, and enforcing age-restriction compliance. She emphasized that Idaho retailers have strong compliance rates and urged the committee to regulate kratom responsibly rather than ban it, arguing that regulation is the better approach.