Michelle Axtman — During the opening roll call and initial procedural exchange, Senator Michelle Axtman is identified (with her name misspelled in the transcript), responds 'Here' to confirm her presence, is then referenced in the motion/second sequence, and is later asked whether she has anything to add.
Michelle Axtman — Senator Axtman asks the witness whether all products include warning labels about the dangers of mixing them with alcohol.
Michelle Axtman — Asked what prompted the public health association to draft and release the resolution and whether it was voted on statewide.
Michelle Axtman — The speaker says he gave a data point sheet to Heinert at Axtman/Axman, likely referring to Senator Michelle Axtman. The mention appears twice in overlapping transcript segments but reflects the same brief reference.
Michelle Axtman — Addressed as chair; likely a reference to Senator Michelle Axtman, but the transcript says 'Axman' and should be treated as uncertain.
Michelle Axtman — Addressed as one of the co-chairs; transcript says “Axman,” likely Axtman.
Michelle Axtman — Asked whether kratom screening and discussion are now part of prenatal protocol before birth.
Michelle Axtman — Senator Axtman asks when the witness first started seeing patients seeking treatment for kratom-related issues.
Michelle Axtman — Addressed by the witness as part of the committee greeting.
Michelle Axtman — The speaker repeatedly notes that Senator Michelle Axtman has met with them and legislative council to work on related draft bills, indicating ongoing legislative collaboration on the issue being discussed.
Todd Porter — Answered present during roll call.
Todd Porter — Representative Porter questioned the witness’s testimony about kratom by first noting that a ChatGPT search seemed to give a different account, then citing CDC, FDA, and Tampa Bay Times reporting on kratom-related deaths and risks, and finally asking how to balance those dangers against the product’s claimed benefits compared with alternatives like Tylenol and ibuprofen.
Todd Porter — Todd Porter asked follow-up questions about how a regulatory framework for kratom would work in practice, including who would pay for laboratory testing and how a product registration system might address hybrid plants or agronomic methods that could increase the natural chemical content of the plant. He compared the issue to marijuana hybridization and asked whether kratom could experience a similar greenhouse effect, then pressed on how regulators could prevent hybridization or other cultivation techniques from raising percentages in the natural leaf product.
Todd Porter — Asked the witness to repeat his name and then asked whether the presentation items are part of the model act.
Todd Porter — Representative Porter asks whether the witness has researched the Kratom Protection Act and similar state frameworks.
Todd Porter — Representative Porter questions Dr. Hinky in a continuous line of inquiry, beginning with a brief prompt and then continuing to press him on prior testimony, including the comparison of natural leaf kratom to caffeine.
Todd Porter — Called on to speak after the chair's remarks.
Glenn Bosch — Noted as being present from legislative management.
Dr. Bradley King — Dr. Bradley King testified in support of considering kratom as a pain-management option, saying he represents himself and a few others and had submitted written testimony. He described the burden chronic pain patients face when seeking specialist care and how they can be treated as drug seekers. He argued that banning natural kratom could worsen pain treatment, encouraged members to research the issue, and said he used online tools to look for overdose or adverse reaction records. He reported that ChatGPT found no U.S. cases from 2021 to 2025 and added that his daughter, who has worked in a St. Luke's ER for seven years, has never seen an overdose or reaction from kratom by itself. He also said kratom is being targeted in part because it is sold in convenience stores and gas stations, and noted that some people use it to get off opioids and to manage chronic pain affordably. He then concluded his testimony and took no questions.
Kathy Hogan — Mentioned as a member of Legislative Management and asked whether she should be invited.
Shelly Gunderson — Shelly Gunderson introduced herself and her family and explained that they are speaking as concerned citizens after losing their son Nick in 2019. She described Nick as a talented, hardworking young man whose football injuries and chronic pain contributed to opioid addiction and later kratom use. She recounted his death, the autopsy and toxicology findings, and said the coroner ruled it an accidental overdose with mitragynine present from kratom, along with alcohol and gabapentin, but no opioids or synthetic 7-OH mitragynine. She emphasized that kratom was marketed like a dietary supplement, can cause withdrawal, affects opioid receptors, and is difficult to stop using. She also noted that the DEA once tried to classify kratom as Schedule I and referenced pro-kratom lobbyists present in the room.
Moe — Introduces himself as the owner of Most Smoke Shop and begins testimony.
Mohamed Waswaz — Mohamed Waswaz identifies himself and then testifies in opposition to the kratom ban, saying his products are lab tested and that customers, including moms and athletes, regularly buy kratom from his stores. He explains that removing kratom from shelves caused a major drop in sales, with customers now buying it online, and says the loss has exceeded $200,000 across his North Dakota stores. He concludes by answering a final question, thanking the committee, and ending his testimony.
Mr. Waswas — Confirms that products warn against mixing with alcohol, opiates, or anything else.
Dick Dever — Dick Dever questioned the witness about his kratom business, first asking whether he offers the full range of kratom products and then asking whether kratom alone would be economically viable to market without the other products.
Dick Dever — Senator Dever questioned the witness about kratom, asking what the upside is, whether there is a downside, and whether there are alternative products that could provide the same effect without the downside.
Dick Dever — Senator Dever asks whether kratom’s appeal comes from its affordability and accessibility, and follows up by asking whether there are other products or prescription options that could serve the same purpose.
Dick Dever — Senator Dever was addressed during a committee discussion focused on whether information is tracked less frequently because kratom is legal, forming one continuous exchange.
Dick Dever — Addressed by the speaker while asking about bill publication timing.
Scott Meske — Introduces himself as representing the American Kratom Association and introduces Dr. Jack Hedingsfield.
Dr. Jack Hedingsfield / Jack Edward Henningfield — Introduced as a Johns Hopkins expert with experience working with FDA and DEA on addictive substances.
Jack Edward Henningfield — Jack Edward Henningfield introduces his background at Johns Hopkins and his long career in drug policy and scheduling work with NIDA, DEA, and FDA. He explains his current consulting work, including advising the American Kratom Association and involvement in kratom litigation, then argues that kratom is a relatively safer alternative that should be regulated rather than banned so products can be labeled and held to standards for impurities. He describes research on mitragynine and kratom, including a study pushing doses in animals, and says kratom products can be regulated for quality and safety. He discusses his book on kratom research and the emerging issue of 7-OH, noting FDA and NIDA’s view that it meets the standard for morphine-like addiction liability and should be scheduled. He then shifts to who uses kratom and why, emphasizing everyday use, pain relief, veterans’ needs, and access in rural communities, while also referencing psychedelic medicine development and regulated medicines at Johns Hopkins. In the Q&A portion, he responds to concerns by citing CDC, Colorado, FDA, and DEA information, arguing that kratom-only deaths are rare, often involve other substances, and that the evidence is more nuanced than simplistic summaries, supporting balanced regulation until FDA acts.
Pat Heinert — Addressed as chair during the question period.
Pat Heinert — Addressed as one of the co-chairs; transcript says “Heinert.”
Pat Heinert — Addressed by the witness as part of the committee greeting.
Pat Heinert — Was addressed as chair in the discussion.
Chelsea Ridge — Introduced herself as speaking on behalf of the North Dakota Public Health Association.
Chelsea Ridge — Explained that local public health staff had been seeing kratom products in retail settings since about 2021 and that the resolution was voted on by members and adopted by the governing council.
Ms. Ridge — Responded to committee questions about the resolution process.
Laura Romney — Laura Romney testified as a long-time kratom consumer and president of the International Plant and Herbal Alliance, describing her chronic pain and trigeminal neuralgia and explaining that kratom helped her stop using opioids and other medications. She argued that natural kratom leaf has helped many pain patients and should remain available, while expressing strong opposition to 7-OH and synthetic derivatives, which she linked to recent harms and market problems. Romney urged the committee to pursue regulation rather than prohibition, recommending age restrictions, behind-the-counter sales, child-resistant packaging, lab testing, product registration, certificates of analysis, and other safeguards to ensure compliant, natural products remain accessible.
Misty — The next online witness was called and confirmed she could be heard.
Misty Brown — Misty Brown introduced herself as a mother and grandmother and explained that she accidentally found kratom in 2019 after watching a documentary and entering a smoke shop where the product was lab tested, behind glass, and age-verified. She testified that kratom has helped her with chronic pain, anxiety, depression, and recovery from addiction, noting that she did not use Suboxone, methadone, or A.A./N.A. meetings and was able to recover at home with her children. She also warned about the consequences of banning kratom-related products and concluded that if lawmakers have the power to ban them, they also have the power to regulate them.
Mack Haddo — Mack Haddo, a senior fellow on public policy with the American Kratom Association, discussed the regulatory history of kratom and the association’s response to safety concerns. He described FDA and DEA actions, criticized the quality of the FDA’s evidence, and explained that some manufacturers have used solvents and chemical manipulation to create dangerous enhanced products, including higher-7-OH formulations. He said the American Kratom Association advocated for the Kratom Consumer Protection Act, which has been adopted in many states, and recommended clear product standards such as a 2% cap on 7-OH and the use of FDA-approved food-grade solvents for extraction.
Mack Haddow — Mack Haddow continued his testimony on the Kratom Consumer Protection Act/model act, arguing that kratom products should be made with FDA-approved food-grade solvents rather than industrial solvents and that synthetic derivatives should be banned. He recommended a regulatory framework including labeling, age restrictions, product registration, and independent certificates of analysis from approved labs. He also described a complaint-driven enforcement process in which manufacturers would have to provide updated COAs at their own expense for potentially violative products, and said enforcement could be supported through excise taxes, sales taxes, or manufacturer registration fees. He concluded by noting that kratom deaths are rare and are typically associated with adulterated products or underlying health conditions.
Jennifer Gillis — Jennifer Gillis testified remotely from Tennessee about how kratom helped her chronic pain and how Tennessee’s ban harmed her and others. She then argued that the 7-OH industry created confusion and harm by falsely marketing 7-OH products as kratom, saying the problem stems from manufacturers targeting the kratom name. She closed by saying she wanted to speak for ordinary people and families affected by the issue, including moms, grandmas, and others whose lives are impacted.
Leon Francis — Introduces himself as a resident of Enderlin, North Dakota, and says he supports medical freedom and individual liberty.
Dwight Kiefert — The speaker notes that he gave Representative Pat Heinert a data point sheet at Axman.
Simon — The next online witness is called to testify.
Simon Borrell — Simon Borrell testified that he has used kratom for about two and a half years to manage PTSD, anxiety, and depression from military service, and that it helped him taper off clonazepam under doctor oversight. He said that when kratom was banned or unavailable, he had to return to the same benzodiazepine dose because he could not function without it, and he described kratom as important to his sleep, marriage, and family stability. He also recounted giving his wife a small amount of kratom after a miscarriage when she could not get hydrocodone, said he had unknowingly tried 7-OH products, and supported regulation and testing of kratom products. He concluded by saying the situation scares him and clarified that VA staff have been receptive to kratom and do support his use of it.
Alex — Introduced himself as representing the Global Kratom Coalition and introduced Allison Smith.