Video & Transcript : 'P3 contract' :
Page 2 of 500
CA
Transcript Highlights:
- P3 financing.
- And we can put it on our P3 tracker, that that structure that is in place is really... ...our P3 tracker
- We have not contracted anything. It's still open.
- We have not contracted anything on those locations.
- And then P3s, again, they could be part of the solution.
Committee:
Senate Transportation
Summary:
The Senate Transportation Committee held an informational hearing on the California High-Speed Rail Authority’s 2026 draft business plan, with testimony from the authority, the Legislative Analyst’s Office, and the High-Speed Rail Inspector General. Chair Cortese framed the hearing around the project’s recent changes: a new CEO, revised delivery strategy, loss of federal funds, renewed interest in private financing and value capture, and proposed adjustments to the Merced-to-Bakersfield segment. He also raised concerns about statutory compliance, transparency, and whether the draft plan fully reflects required elements and true costs and timelines.
Authority CEO Ian Chaudhry said the project has made substantial construction progress in the Central Valley and is moving toward track installation, with the state’s $1 billion annual cap-and-invest funding providing a stable base. He argued the plan uses design optimization, direct procurement of materials, and revised sequencing to reduce costs and support an early operating segment by about 2032-33. He also promoted broader commercialization of the corridor through real estate, energy, broadband, logistics, and public-private partnerships, saying private sector interest is now real. Several senators pressed him on station locations, tax increment financing, utility relocation authority, permitting delays, transparency, and whether the project can realistically reach Los Angeles and San Francisco on the current timeline and budget.
The LAO and Inspector General were more skeptical. LAO analyst Helen Kirstine said the draft plan assumes major scope changes, including a shorter segment, a Merced station outside downtown, more single-tracking, and several statutory changes that have not yet been enacted. She warned that the plan may not comply with recent legislative requirements, that funding may still be insufficient even for the reduced segment, and that borrowing against future cap-and-invest revenues is risky because those revenues are uncertain and volatile. Inspector General Ben Belknap said the draft plan fails to comply with newer statutory requirements, especially regarding the Merced-to-Bakersfield scope, the funding plan, and missing procurement milestone dates. He said the presentation obscures cost increases and schedule delays and limits the Legislature’s ability to compare current estimates with prior reports.
Committee members generally supported continued oversight and some form of project delivery reform, but several expressed concern that the plan relies on legislative changes that have not been approved and on private financing that may not materialize. Chaudhry said the authority would address the Inspector General’s findings in the final business plan and continue to pursue federal grants, private capital, and corridor commercialization. No vote was taken at the hearing.
KY
Kentucky 2025 Regular Session
Budget Review Subcommittee on Transportation (10-15-25)
Transcript Highlights:
- </c> away cuz I'm not going to talk about P3 away cuz I'm not going to talk about P3 very<00:06:46.080
- Um and contract and relationship.
- </c> these alternative types of contracting these alternative types of contracting structures.<00:09:
- ,</c> contracts.
- Once you award a contract, contracts.
Summary:
The Budget Review Subcommittee on Transportation met without a quorum, so it could not approve the minutes. The chair announced an Eastern Kentucky University health forum later that day and then proceeded with testimony on alternative delivery methods for road projects. Jason Sawala of the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet and Chad Laroo of the Kentucky Association of Highway Contractors were sworn in and introduced themselves.
Sawala explained KYTC’s use of alternative delivery tools, including design-build, construction manager/general contractor (CMGC), and public-private partnerships (P3s). He said the cabinet’s goal is to deliver the best value to taxpayers in terms of quality, cost, and time, and emphasized that alternative delivery is most useful on projects with special circumstances such as innovation needs, specialized technology, complex constructibility, schedule pressure, or early contractor input. He cited the cabinet’s wrong-way driving prevention project as an example where design-build helped evaluate technologies and coordinate with stakeholders such as EMS and first responders.
He also outlined the main tradeoffs: alternative delivery can improve collaboration and sometimes accelerate schedules, but it also brings risks related to right-of-way acquisition, utility relocation, changing scope, and the need for dedicated staff and compressed decision-making. He stressed that these methods are not a cure-all and are not appropriate for every project, while noting that traditional design-bid-build remains effective for most of KYTC’s work.
Representative Branscum responded favorably, saying early contractor involvement is valuable and consistent with his experience in the vertical construction world. No votes or formal actions were taken because the committee lacked a quorum.
OK
Transcript Highlights:
- this authorization to put this turnpike back in will go away after five years if an approved design contract
- I just believe that we can actually put together an actual design Project, contract, plan within five
- So, the design project, having the approved design and contracted out with the mean, they've gone out
- forbids, they've gone out for everything, and they've got the contract Written and signed.
- hires a design engineer to begin the design, and then that addresses the sunset provision, so the contract
Committee:
House Transportation
Keywords:
memorial, infrastructure, transportation, dedication, Toby Keith, SB 2049, Oklahoma Department of Transportation, ODOT, Transportation Commission, surety bond, surety company, performance bond, contractor nonperformance, construction contract, public works, transportation contracts, bond claim, state transportation projects, Title 69, OMES
OK
Oklahoma 2026 Regular Session
Aeronautics and Transportation Mar 2nd, 2026 at 10:00 am
Aeronautics and Transportation
Transcript Highlights:
- The transportation commission currently has to approve all contracts, they approve awarding bids, they
- approve change orders to contracts.
- get into debate right Now, but along that same line, there are a lot of state agencies that let contracts
- like that if we go with this, there are some agencies that probably do not go through the mess for contracts
Committee:
Senate Aeronautics and Transportation
Keywords:
memorial highways, bridge designations, Oklahoma Statutes, commemorative markers, transportation, uninsured vehicles, reimbursement fund, towing services, commercial vehicles, public safety, memorial, infrastructure, dedication, Toby Keith, aviation, aircraft, surveillance, regulations, fees, Oklahoma statutes
CA
California 2025-2026 Regular Session
Senate Transportation Committee Apr 27th, 2026
Transcript Highlights:
- We have not contracted anything. It's still open.
- We have not contracted anything on those locations.
- And there is discussion of a P3 as one potential approach.
- And there is discussion of a P3 as one potential approach.
- And then P3s, again, they could be part of the solution.
Summary:
The Senate Transportation Committee held an informational hearing on the California High-Speed Rail Authority’s 2026 draft business plan, with testimony from the authority, the Legislative Analyst’s Office, and the High-Speed Rail Inspector General. Chair Cortese framed the hearing around the project’s recent changes: a new CEO, revised delivery strategy, proposed station and scope changes in the Merced-to-Bakersfield segment, the loss of major federal funds, and the authority’s push for private investment and ancillary revenue. He also raised concerns about financing risks, the proposed changes to the initial operating segment, and the Inspector General’s finding that the draft plan may be missing required statutory elements.
Authority CEO Ian Chaudhry said the project is now in a more disciplined phase, citing major construction progress in the Central Valley, near-completion of right-of-way and utility work, and plans to begin track and systems procurement. He said the authority expects the Merced-to-Bakersfield segment to be completed around 2032-33, with broader Phase 1 service later, and argued that design optimization, direct procurement, and public-private partnerships could reduce costs and attract private capital. He also described plans for ancillary revenue from real estate, broadband, energy, and logistics, and said the authority is discussing station locations and value-capture tools with local governments rather than locking them in yet. Several senators questioned the legality and practicality of tax increment financing, utility relocation authority, transparency, and whether the project’s revised scope still meets high-speed rail standards and public expectations.
The Legislative Analyst’s Office said the draft plan assumes major statutory changes, including changes to station locations and scope, and warned that the plan’s cost and schedule estimates depend on assumptions that may not materialize. LAO said the plan lacks transparency because it does not clearly disclose the assumed station changes, and it questioned whether even the shorter segment can be delivered within existing funding once borrowing costs and other risks are included. The office also noted uncertainty around future greenhouse gas reduction fund revenues and said ancillary revenues are not yet credit-worthy for financing. The Inspector General’s office said the draft business plan does not appear to meet several statutory requirements, including requirements added in AB 377, and reiterated that the final plan must address those omissions. Chaudhry said the authority would respond to the OIG’s findings in the final business plan and committed to resolving the compliance issues before final adoption.
KY
Kentucky 2026 Regular Session
House Budget review Sub. on Postsecondary Education. (1-29-26)
Transcript Highlights:
- models with a public any of the P3 models with a public private<00:15:55.440><c> partnership</c><00:
- looking at a P3 cost share for<00:16:14.079><c> residence</c><00:16:14.560><c> halls.
- Even some of the instructors are embedded in the research and development contracts that we get.
- </c><00:21:06.480><c> Some</c> development contracts that we get.
- Some development contracts that we get.
Summary:
The House Budget Review Subcommittee on Postsecondary Education met to hear from Morehead State University President Jay Morgan, who outlined the university’s budget and capital priorities. He described Morehead as a Kentucky-serving, largely low-income student institution with an aging campus, and said the university’s long-term plan is to renovate existing facilities, decommission older buildings, and replace outdated space with more efficient construction. He thanked the General Assembly for prior support, especially asset preservation funding, fire and tornado insurance premium support, and a prior university inflationary adjustment.
On the operating side, Morgan asked that insurance premium support continue, that the earlier inflationary adjustment roll forward, and that the Kentucky Council on Postsecondary Education’s request for a minimum distribution in the performance funding formula be supported. He noted Morehead has received little or no performance funding in recent years and said that if no additional formula funds are added, the university would prefer a line-item appropriation. On the capital side, he requested continued asset preservation funding and outlined several construction priorities: a new applied science building, a new agriculture science building, a new space science technology building, and a cost-share replacement for the aging Maze Hall residence hall, with the state covering $10 million of a $20 million project and Morehead matching the rest.
Morgan also discussed the Craft Academy, saying the current appropriation supports 200 students and that the university would like to increase the line item to expand enrollment by about 20 students. In response to questions from Chairman Tipton, he said Morehead had previously explored but ultimately rejected a public-private partnership model for housing, preferring to own and control its residence halls to keep housing costs manageable for students. He also explained that the land surveying courses in the applied science proposal are a popular part of related programs and that Morehead’s space science program is a major research-and-contracts-driven operation with about 250 students, federal and private research ties, and graduates working both in Kentucky and elsewhere. The committee then approved the prior meeting minutes and discussed that upcoming postsecondary budget meetings would continue over the next several weeks to gather input on the new budget process.
CA
Transcript Highlights:
- some of those contracts.
- some of those contracts.
- The P3 model keeps coming up.
- and contract amendments.
- That wouldn't be a conflict. ...an existing contract and is bidding on a new contract.
Committee:
House Transportation
CA
California 2025-2026 Regular Session
Assembly Transportation Committee Mar 2nd, 2026
Transcript Highlights:
- some of those contracts.
- The P3 model keeps coming up.
- and contract amendments.
- and is bidding on a new contract.
- An existing contract and is bidding on a new contract—that wouldn't be a conflict of interest, correct
Summary:
The Assembly Transportation Committee held an oversight hearing on California High-Speed Rail, focusing on the authority’s supplemental project update report and the newly released 2026 draft business plan. Committee leaders emphasized transparency, the project’s funding challenges, and the need for clear answers on costs, schedule, and scope. The High-Speed Rail Authority said the project has made major progress in the Central Valley, including substantial construction completion, right-of-way acquisition, and railhead development, and highlighted over $14 billion in savings from a rebased project plan, plus an additional $2 billion in savings in the draft business plan. The authority also said it expects to begin laying track by the end of the year and continues to pursue private-sector partnerships and clean-energy opportunities.
The Legislative Analyst’s Office and the Inspector General both raised concerns about whether the current funding plan is sufficient and whether the authority has clearly identified the timing of future expenditures versus revenues. The LAO said the project likely still faces a funding gap for Merced-to-Bakersfield once financing costs and the loss of $4 billion in federal funds are considered, and warned that cap-and-invest revenues are volatile and may not be well suited for borrowing without additional safeguards. The Inspector General said the authority still has not provided a precise funding plan, estimated the project is about two years away from lacking funds on hand to stay on schedule, and urged lawmakers to focus on financing costs, procurement timing, schedule risks, and distinguishing true cost cuts from scope changes.
Members questioned the authority about proposed statutory changes, including CEQA and permitting streamlining, court resources, third-party process changes, sales tax exemptions on materials, and expanded land-use/value-capture tools. They also pressed the authority on the loss of federal funds, the withdrawal of litigation over those funds, and whether the project’s revised savings depend on moving station locations away from downtown Merced and Bakersfield and on other scope changes such as more single-tracking and blended operations south of Palmdale. The authority said it is still committed to Merced-to-Bakersfield, believes the business plan shows a path to completion with sufficient funding, and will work with the Legislature on any needed changes before the final plan is submitted.
AR
Transcript Highlights:
- Moving on to the contracts. Item E1, we have the construction-related contracts.
- This is Amendment 10 to an existing contract. It increases the contract by $17 million.
- Contracts 19, 20, and 21.
- These two contracts should be considered on-call contracts.
- expertise with P3 projects.
Committee:
All ALC-REVIEW
Summary:
The review subcommittee met to consider a supplemental agenda, methods of finance, an alternative delivery project, discretionary grants, and a large slate of construction, out-of-state, and in-state contracts. The supplemental item was a $2.6 million out-of-state contract with Tyler Technologies for a mobile app that would let citizens access state services through a single sign-on, initially for DFA vehicle and licensing services, with possible expansion to other agencies. Members also reviewed five methods of finance, including University of Arkansas projects for roof and cooling tower replacements, a new $100 million academic classroom building at U of A Fayetteville, a police department renovation at UA Fort Smith, and a boiler/chiller replacement at Hope-Texarkana. Questions focused on project timing, why some items were being reviewed after work had begun, and the high estimated cost of the Fayetteville classroom building; DFA explained that projects under $250,000 are not reviewed and that the larger project was still in design and would later seek a guaranteed maximum price.
The committee also reviewed two DHS discretionary grants: one for targeted youth advocacy in southwest Arkansas and another adding $582,000 for family-centered treatment training and implementation. In the services contract section, members discussed construction-related contracts, including an ASMSA electrical scope increase tied to three-phase power requirements and the U of A Fayetteville architect contract for the classroom building. Out-of-state contracts included major items such as ACT Education’s $17 million amendment to provide required pre-ACT testing for 9th and 10th graders, a $12.5 million DFA contract for rural health transformation grant management, DHS’s $16.5 million EBT services contract with updated chip-card and fraud-prevention features, and ADH’s special procurement for the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System survey. The committee also reviewed U of A system consulting contracts for financial advisory and sponsorship strategy work, with university officials saying the outside expertise was needed for specialized planning and revenue-generation efforts.
In-state contracts covered corrections reentry services, nursing board investigations, foster care and child welfare services, DHS office janitorial work, emergency management radio system expansion, veterans’ home nursing staffing, and UAMS grants consulting. A lengthy exchange centered on the Department of Corrections’ reentry housing contract, with members pressing officials about vacant beds and urging fuller use of the program, while corrections staff said placements depend on screening and eligibility. Another discussion addressed the balance between out-of-state and in-state contracting, with a member noting the large dollar volume going to out-of-state vendors and asking whether Arkansas vendors receive any preference; State Procurement said current law does not allow an in-state preference. The committee approved the supplemental agenda, the methods of finance, the alternative delivery project, the discretionary grants, and the contract lists, and then received routine reports and an emergency action report before adjourning.
NM
Transcript Highlights:
- Chairman and committee, is the P3 section that is an incentive for development, development.
- It provides that every P3 project, uh, present benchmarks and deliverables before any money is exchanged
- Importantly, uh, any P3 agreement that is entered into cannot go beyond a 30-year period.
- We just wanted to be extra careful and make sure that the people that are negotiating the contract aren't
Committee:
Senate Senate Finance
AR
Transcript Highlights:
- Moving on to the contracts. Item E1, we have the construction-related contracts.
- This is Amendment 10 to an existing contract. It increases the contract by $17 million.
- about contracts that are considered on-call contracts.
- expertise with P3 projects.
- So we reviewed 24 contracts, out-of-state contracts worth roughly $70,793,000.
Committee:
All ALC-REVIEW
KY
Kentucky 2026 Regular Session
Capital Projects and Bond Oversight Committee (1-29-26) - Upon Adjournment
Transcript Highlights:
- interesting, and it is something, if you haven't read much on it, it was in the Herald-Leader, but it's a P3
- Leader,</c><00:02:12.800><c> but</c><00:02:13.040><c> it's</c><00:02:13.280><c> a</c><00:02:13.520><c> P3
- </c> Herald Leader, but it's a P3 Herald Leader, but it's a P3 partnership,<00:02:15.280><c> a</c><00
- </c> opportunity to pursue these P3 opportunity to pursue these P3 opportunities<00:17:01.519><c> to<
- Is any of this money already contract.
Summary:
The committee first approved the December meeting minutes and received several information items, including quarterly capital project status reports, University of Kentucky medical and equipment purchases, school district bond issue notices, and a University of Kentucky RFP for an enterprise services partner. Members also briefly discussed a University of Kentucky public-private partnership for student housing and dining, with comments that such arrangements may improve efficiency and use of taxpayer dollars during a difficult budget year.
The main substantive discussion centered on a new CHFS lease in Harlan County for the Department for Community Based Services. Members questioned the proposed annual cost of $25.62 per square foot, which was far above the county average cited in the meeting, and raised concerns about the one responsive bid, the long lease term through 2033, and whether a nearby hospital or other entity might have been interested. CHFS staff said the current office space is in poor condition, that the new lease includes needed construction and 60 parking spaces, and that the office is limited to considering only actual bidders. After debate over whether to rebid or negotiate, the committee voted to approve the lease, with some members supporting it because of the current facility’s condition and others recording reservations.
The committee then approved the remaining 10 lease renewals as a group. These included one renewal for the Commonwealth’s prosecutorial system and renewals for several CHFS offices, the Department of Corrections, the Department of Juvenile Justice, and the Department of Natural Resources. One member noted that seven of the 10 renewals were at or below the county average rate and said the overall package was substantially in line with local market conditions.
WA
Washington 2025-2026 Regular Session
Senate Early Learning & K-12 Education Feb 24th, 2026 at 08:00 am
Early Learning & K-12 Education
Transcript Highlights:
- House Bill 1796 authorizes school districts to contract indebtedness and issue bonds without a vote of
- capital levy and have not been on binding conditions in the three years preceding the date of the contract
Committee:
Senate Early Learning & K-12 Education
WA
Washington 2025-2026 Regular Session
Senate Early Learning & K-12 Education Feb 18th, 2026 at 10:30 am
Early Learning & K-12 Education
Transcript Highlights:
- The bill before you is House Bill 1796, relating to school district authority to contract indebtedness
- To provide brief background, a school district may contract indebtedness and issue bonds without a vote
- A school district that contracts indebtedness for this purpose must have passed a voter-approved capital
- levy and cannot have been under binding conditions in the three years preceding the date of the contract
- This legislation would allow those school districts to bond against the revenue that's coming in, contract
Bills:
HB1796
Committee:
Senate Early Learning & K-12 Education
OK
Oklahoma 2026 Regular Session
Conference Committee on Judiciary and Public Safety Oversight Apr 29th, 2026 at 01:15 pm
Conference Committee on Judiciary and Public Safety Oversight
OK
Oklahoma 2026 Regular Session
Conference Committee on Judiciary and Public Safety Oversight Apr 15th, 2026 at 01:00 pm
Conference Committee on Judiciary and Public Safety Oversight
TX
Bills:
HB2007 , HB2462 , HB2621 , HB2921 , HB3187 , HB3331 , HB3332 , HJR144 , HB3514 , HB3528 , HB3539 , HB3563 , HB3720 , HB3726 , HB3751 , HB3859 , HB3947 , HB4148 , HB4164 , HB4337 , HB4346 , HB4368 , HB4706 , HB4916 , HB4950 , HB4967 , HB5177 , HB5603
Committee:
House Transportation
Keywords:
commercial signs, county approval, transportation code, regulations, road signage, high occupancy vehicle lane, pregnant operators, transportation, parental rights, motor vehicle regulations, live video feed, state agency, transparency, public safety, confidentiality, personal information, local government, airport data, public records, regional transportation
US
US Federal 2025-2026 Regular Session
Joint hearings with the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs to examine the legislative presentation of The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. and multi VSOs: Paralyzed Veterans of America, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Student Veterans Mar 4th, 2025 at 09:00 am
Senate Veterans' Affairs
Transcript Highlights:
- This is a contract.
- Honor the contract.
- Cancel contracts first, analyze after.
- I would like to just again comment about the contract, you know, contract or contracts.
- cancellations, I believe it's totaling 585, is that that is a in the contract and the number of contracts
Committee:
Senate Senate Veterans' Affairs
Keywords:
veteran services, Secretary Collins, healthcare provisions, contract cancellations, transparency, accountability, committee meeting, legislation
Summary:
During this committee meeting, various bills were discussed with a specific focus on veteran services and healthcare provisions. Notably, the cancellation of critical contracts under Secretary Collins sparked significant debate, with representatives emphasizing the adverse impact on veteran care. The meeting featured testimonies from veterans and stakeholders who expressed their concerns regarding the potential fallout of these cancellations, demonstrating the urgency of transparency and accountability in management decisions. Discussions also delved into various legislative proposals aimed at improving services for veterans amidst these challenges.
TX
Transcript Highlights:
- A contract with a third party to perform the duties of a DEI office.
- in favor of high school football coach Joseph Kennedy, who sued the school district because his contract
- Senate Bill 992 sets a clear 25-day deadline for the Attorney General to approve or deny these contracts
Committee:
House State Affairs
Keywords:
temporary emergency electric energy facility, temporary generation, emergency power, backup generation, mobile generator, portable generator, grid resilience, power outage restoration, transmission and distribution utility, TDU, Public Utility Commission of Texas, PUCT, Utilities Code Section 39.918, competitive bidding, lease authorization, emergency procurement, bulk power system, locational marginal pricing, reliability model, black start
TX
Transcript Highlights:
- P3 is when the passenger is in the vehicle, and the TNC is maintaining the same coverage as P2, the $1
- We're contending here that that risk is more comparable to P1, as I described it, than to P3.
- And so in P3 you do, and the increased liability protections are there.
- Generally, the bill would authorize the Comptroller or a state agency to award multiple contracts to
- Two, for them to enter into contracts. Three, it allows them to hold and transfer property.
Bills:
HB111
Committee:
Senate Business & Commerce
Summary:
The committee heard a long series of House bills, with most measures laid out by Senate sponsors and then left pending after brief public testimony. Early bills focused on construction and licensing issues, including HB 305 on prompt payment for public construction audits, HB 5093 on restoring public access to notary contact information, HB 2037 on updating landlord-tenant repair and security deposit rules, HB 4214 on a centralized public information request contact database, and HB 5435 exempting higher education institutions from a 90-day notice requirement for certain public-private partnership projects. Testimony was generally supportive on these bills, and no votes were taken; each was left pending.
The committee also considered several transparency and regulatory bills. HB 111 would expand the Public Information Act to certain nonprofit state associations and narrow some attorney-client and working-paper exceptions, with supporters arguing it would improve oversight of public funds and critics questioning the scope and thresholds. HB 5129 would protect occupational license holders’ personal identifying information from disclosure without consent, HB 4350 would allow peace officers to redact personal information from online real property records, HB 4748 would authorize multiple-award state purchasing contracts, and HB 4765 would clean up code enforcement officer licensing rules. HB 4134 would allow motor vehicle creditors to charge limited fees for electronic payment options while requiring a free alternative, and HB 1043 would direct a study of blockchain-based property title records; both drew testimony, with some concern about the practical effects and vendor implications of the blockchain study.
Several bills addressed insurance, workforce, and digital-asset regulation. HB 3520 would reduce the insurance coverage required for transportation network companies during the period when a driver is en route to pick up a passenger, drawing support from Texans for Lawsuit Reform and opposition from trial lawyers who argued the higher coverage better protects the public. HB 3320 would create a self-insurance pool for religious institutions, with TDI explaining it would still be regulated but operate under a special statutory framework. HB 4233 would modernize rules for digital asset service providers by removing certain auditor-access requirements and updating reporting and licensing provisions. HB 3923 would reduce bachelor’s-degree requirements for some state jobs, though Every Texan argued low pay, not degree requirements, is the main driver of turnover. HB 4518 would create a legal structure for decentralized unincorporated nonprofit associations tied to blockchain governance; business law experts opposed it as unnecessary and potentially risky, while crypto advocates supported it. Finally, HB 1803 would join an interstate compact for dentists and dental hygienists, with supporters citing workforce shortages and opponents saying Texas already licenses quickly and that the compact could weaken state oversight. Throughout the hearing, the committee repeatedly closed testimony and left bills pending, and a quorum was eventually established before later items were heard.