Transcript Highlights:

• HP 1770 by Goodwin were linked to the annual adjustment of the basic allotment of the foundation school
• hardship grant programmer for the Committee on Public Education, HB 2122 by Luzano relating to the adjustment
• hardship grant programmer for the Committee of Public Education, HB 2125 by Luzano relating to an adjustment
• By Landgraf relating to an adjustment in the amount of the basic allotment and the guaranteed yield under
• relates to making supplemental appropriations and reductions in appropriations giving direction and adjustment

Transcript Highlights:

• financial aid office administration and implementing a recurring, cost-effective approach for living adjustments
• requires additional funds beyond what was appropriated for in that year's budget, we can then make an adjustment
• in the financial aid delivery process, you will probably see something like a downward caseload adjustment
• for Cal Grant and an upward caseload adjustment for the Middle Class Scholarship.
• You said that there were cuts made to the IT contracts to make some of the budget adjustments.

Keywords: 988, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• Formula for that could be adjusted as well to provide for larger deposits more frequently, for example
• What did you learn from that prior experience, and how do you adjust it accordingly?
• Than it can be found acceptable, there could be adjustments made to that.
• As far as the CDCR impact, it's budgeted biannually, twice a year through population adjustments.
• As the population goes up, there are certain standards... adjustments to accommodate the increased population

Keywords: 988, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• Last year, the tax collectors and superintendents received a $5,000 base pay salary adjustment.
• asking for the supervisors and property appraisers and clerks to be in line for a base pay salary adjustment
• That base is adjusted based on population, then based on inflation, and it literally takes them until
• There were some challenges made by some states on how ERIC needed to be adjusted, both on price and the
• There were some challenges made by some states on how Eric needed to be adjusted, both on price and the

Summary: The committee heard a presentation from several county supervisors of elections and the Florida Supervisors of Elections Association on the 2024 election cycle and priorities for the 2025 session. They described very high turnout in the presidential election, major operational planning needs, and the heavy reliance on seasonal workers, list maintenance, ballot-on-demand systems, and secure chain-of-custody procedures. They also discussed the impact of recent legislative changes on voter-roll maintenance, including inactive voter removal, and said Florida’s election administration has improved to what they called a “platinum standard.” The supervisors outlined several legislative requests: allowing more than one non-government “wild card” early voting site to improve access and emergency flexibility; requiring newly naturalized citizens to update driver’s license information so voter records match DHSMV data; exempting home addresses of certain election workers and ballot transporters from public records to improve safety and recruitment; restoring a checkbox on vote-by-mail return envelopes so voters can stay on the vote-by-mail list for the next cycle; aligning base salaries for supervisors, property appraisers, and clerks with other constitutional officers; and reducing ballot length by removing precinct committee races from the ballot. They also said they expect a committee bill to carry some of these proposals. Members questioned the panel about ballot transport security, signature verification, vote-by-mail expiration, public records transparency, and the petition process for constitutional amendments. The supervisors said ballots are transported under detailed county plans with tamper-evident seals, chain-of-custody logs, trained workers, and in some cases two-person transport teams. On petitions, they said the process is labor-intensive and expensive, that fraud has occurred in some cases, and that they favor reforms such as requiring more personal identifying information and having initiative sponsors mail petitions to voters rather than making supervisors handle the mailing. They also said signature mismatches can be cured within 72 hours after Election Day and that voters are notified when possible. After the supervisors’ presentation, the committee also heard brief public testimony from Kathleen Griffiths, who urged adoption of commercial-style risk management standards in election systems and referenced several election-related bills her group supports.

Transcript Highlights:

• We think the formula may need some adjustment as we look at it, but the way it works is that if the gross
• The rate on the inflationary adjustment, right?
• I don't know what slide it's on, but it's on page 24, regarding the inflationary adjusted growth rate
• The rate of growth adjusted by inflation...
• Adjusted by inflation and given that projection... Maybe 2020 on the inflationary route, right?

Transcript Highlights:

• appropriate to consider exceptions for cities which have had flat or decreased tax rates, and To adjust
• And over that time, I've seen our city adjust every single time.
• On an inflation-adjusted basis, my residents, on average, will go from just under $1,800 per year to
• So, adjusting for inflation, they're going to pay $3 more per year. And you are one entity.
• So when we talk about adjusting it down...

Bills: HB17, HB23, SB 10

Keywords: property tax, school funding, enrollment changes, inflation adjustment, tax rate notice, property tax exemption, ad valorem tax, Texas Tax Code, nonprofit corporation, charitable organization, educational nonprofit, scientific nonprofit, agriculture support, youth programs, community education, county population threshold, large county, local government revenue, leasehold interest, possessory interest

Transcript Highlights:

• The second one is that roofing contractors cannot act as public insurance adjusters, basically cannot
• The second one is that Riffin contractors cannot act as public insurance adjusters, basically cannot
• And waiving deductibles and the unlicensed practice of public adjusting are addressed in laws elsewhere
• , not here in. ...and the unlicensed practice of public adjusting are addressed in laws elsewhere, not
• I didn't adjust it. It's already there. I mean, it's already in the law.

Bills: HB2963, HB3005, HB3287, HB3288, HB3289, HB3290, HB3344, HB3712, HB3862, HB3874, HB4196, HB4308, HB4901, HB4984

Keywords: digital equipment, repair rights, manufacturers, maintenance, consumer rights, construction contracts, payment regulations, public works, dispute resolution, audit procedures, construction, trust funds, mechanic's lien, contractor, subcontractor, residential properties, disputes, payment obligations, accountability, payment disputes

Summary: The committee heard testimony on several bills related to technology, construction, economic development, and consumer protection. HB 3862 would restrict minors’ access to certain social media apps and limit smartphone use in classrooms; supporters, including Champions for Childhood, argued that smartphones and social media contribute to addiction, distraction, depression, self-harm, and trafficking risks, and the bill was left pending. HB 3712 would change Texas retainage rules so owners could not withhold payment on specially fabricated construction materials once they are delivered, approved, and warranted; subcontractors and suppliers said current retainage practices delay payment for years and create financial risk, and the bill was left pending. HB 2963, the right-to-repair bill, would require manufacturers to provide parts, tools, and information for independent repair of digital devices, with exemptions for medical devices, vehicles under existing agreements, and trade-secret protections; consumer, environmental, business, and repair advocates supported it, while Safelite asked that automotive manufacturers not be excluded from the bill, and it was left pending. HB 4308 would create county industrial development districts to attract major employers and finance infrastructure through local elections and bonds; Fort Bend County supported it as a tool to add jobs and broaden the tax base, and it was left pending. The committee also heard HB 3344, which would create a licensing system for re-roofing contractors, require insurance and bonding, and establish a public database and complaint process. Supporters said it would help curb storm chasers and protect homeowners after storms, while opponents argued it would add burdens on legitimate small roofers, duplicate existing fraud laws, and potentially restrict consumer choice and contractor pricing flexibility. After extensive testimony and questions, the bill was left pending. HB 4196 would create a task force on modernizing manufacturing through digital integration and automation; Schneider Electric and the Texas Workforce Commission supported it as a way to improve competitiveness and create skilled jobs, and it was left pending. HB 3874 would require contractors to receive copies of incorporated contract documents before signing if requested; subcontractors and construction attorneys said it would improve transparency and prevent parties from being bound by unseen terms, and it was left pending. In pending business, the committee voted out several bills. HB 74, creating the Port Verde Port Authority District, was reported favorably to the full House without amendment. HB 112, relating to a science park in certain counties, was reported favorably as substituted. HB 2214, on floodplain notice requirements for leased dwellings, HB 3016, on rental vehicle damage waivers, HB 3133, on explicit deepfake material on social media, HB 3173, on workforce development program planning and evaluation, HB 3807, on child care waiting list priority for children of certain child care workers, HB 463, on unilateral memoranda of contract for residential property, HB 4115, on shareholder proposals to certain domestic corporations, and HB 5008, on use of the Skills Development Fund by certain entities, were all reported favorably, most without amendment and some as substituted. HB 2652, creating a certified caregiver pilot program in the Borderplex workforce area, was also reported favorably and sent to the Committee on Local and Consent Calendars.

Transcript Highlights:

• providers on what equipment may be suitable for the state and their production, and maybe what adjustments
• have to be so they're what adjustments have to be so they're looking<00:23:29.880> at<00:23:30.000
• Colorado was able to track which programs led to good jobs, adjust workforce strategies in real time,
• Colorado was able to track which programs led to good jobs, adjust workforce strategies in real time,
• Colorado was able to track which programs led to good jobs, adjust workforce strategies in real time,

Keywords: 910, house, all

Summary: The committee on Economic Development and Technology heard testimony on several measures, with most witnesses either supporting the bills or offering technical concerns and suggested amendments. On SB 338, testimony came from the Department of Taxation, Tax Foundation of Hawaii, and Surpac, and the bill later moved forward with amendments. On SB 558, testimony was largely in support from the Department of Agriculture, Ulupono Initiative, Local Food Coalition, Hawaii Food Industry Association, Hawaii Farm Bureau, and the Agribusiness Development Corporation, which described the measure as supporting rural jobs, food-system development, and use of off-grade agricultural products. ADC requested flexibility for neighbor-island siting and funding allocations, while the committee also discussed whether the bill’s language should be made more general and whether it could raise constitutional concerns about overly specific site designations. The bill was advanced with amendments and a noted appropriation allocation of $350,000. The committee also heard SB 186, which drew support from the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development, Department of Agriculture, Ulupono Initiative, Hawaii Food Industry Association, Hawaii Farm Bureau, Hawaii Public Health Institute, DED, ADC, AAHU RC&D, and the Hawaii Youth Food Council. Supporters said the measure would improve coordination among agencies on food systems, help address food security and the state’s 30% by 2030 farm-to-school goal, and create a more organized statewide food systems effort. SB 328 received support from the Department of Taxation and Hawaii Farm Bureau, with Farm Bureau describing it as a way to repurpose existing dairy infrastructure to revive hog production and support livestock and farm-to-school goals; the Tax Foundation of Hawaii opposed the measure as a potentially narrow industry incentive that could unfairly benefit a specific taxpayer and said a direct appropriation would be more transparent. SB 89 was described by Hawaii Farm Bureau as a labeling measure intended to protect the integrity of a culturally relevant local product, though the group raised concerns about wording and implementation timing. Later, SB 742 received support from the Department of Labor and Industrial Relations, the Office of Wellness and Resilience, the Executive Office on Early Learning, the University of Hawaii System, Hawaii KidsCAN, the Hawaii Workforce Funders Collaborative, and the State Commission on the Status of Women. Testifiers said the bill would improve cross-agency data sharing, support workforce and education planning, and create public-facing dashboards; the Commission on the Status of Women asked to be included in the working group or as an advisory member. In decision-making, the committee adopted amendments and advanced SB 338, SB 558, and SB 1186. For SB 1186, the chair’s recommendation added three positions, specified committee-note funding amounts for those positions and operating funds, and revised working-group membership to have co-chairs appoint five members with relevant experience and expertise.

Transcript Highlights:

• Next up, House Bill 1153 relating to funding adjustments for state programs or, like, state programs
• Next up, House Bill 1153 relating to funding adjustments for state programs or, like, state programs
• Next up, House Bill 1153 relating to funding adjustments for state programs or, like, state programs
• Next up, HB 1153 HD1, relating to funding adjustments for the state programs.
• 1153 HD1 relating to funding adjustments 1153 HD1 relating to funding adjustments for<00:48:01.240

Keywords: 912, senate, all

Summary: The committee first heard House Bill 412 HD1, which would expand the definition of lobbying to include certain communications with high-level officials about procurement decisions and create presumptions regarding lobbying on behalf of private clients. The State Ethics Commission and State Procurement Office supported the measure, saying it would improve transparency and align Hawaii with other states, while the Hawaii Primary Care Association opposed it over concerns that employers and others could be swept in too broadly. No public testimony or questions led to any action on the bill during the hearing. The committee then took up House Bill 131, which would allow agencies to disclose government records to researchers for certain research purposes and clarify the Office of Information Practices’ rulemaking authority. OIP and the Public First Law Center supported the bill, arguing it would create uniform standards and that concerns could be handled through rules. The University of Hawaiʻi system, DBEDT, DHS, DLNR, and others raised concerns about the breadth of the terms “research” and “researcher,” privacy, confidential information, and possible misuse; Hawaiian Electric also warned about access to sensitive infrastructure information. Members questioned whether the bill was premature and whether definitions should be narrowed in statute, and OIP said it would consider working with agencies and the University on clearer definitions. House Bill 792 HD1, relating to the Office of the Legislative Analyst, drew no testimony beyond a late written support from the Hawaii Children’s Action Network, and the committee moved on without discussion. The committee then heard House Bill 1424, which would restrict transfers between appropriated funds for positions and operating expenses. Budget and Finance explained that current practice allows transfers from payroll to other current expenses when there are savings, but legislative appropriations for specific purposes must still be spent for that purpose. Several agencies expressed opposition or concerns, saying the bill could reduce flexibility, especially in response to federal funding changes or vacant positions, though members emphasized transparency and accountability. Budget and Finance suggested a reporting approach instead, and the committee discussed quarterly reporting as a possible alternative. Finally, the committee began House Bill 1153 HD1, which concerns funding adjustments for state programs and capital improvement projects and establishes a protocol fund. Budget and Finance, DAGS, and the State Procurement Office supported the measure, while the General Contractors Association and several construction-related groups opposed section two, arguing it would undo recent procurement protest-bond safeguards adopted in Act 162. The hearing then moved on toward House Bill 1297, but the transcript cuts off before that bill was fully discussed.

Transcript Highlights:

• 10023 by Senator Martinez: an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law in relation to certain base adjusted
• Thank you. tax law in relation to certain base of adjusted proportions. Question, comments?

Keywords: 993, senate, all

Summary: The local government committee met for its fifth meeting of the year and considered 15 bills, with the chair noting there may be one more meeting to finish the agenda. Members present included Senators Baskin, Fahy, and Rolison, and the committee moved through the bills with brief motions and seconding throughout. The committee reported several measures, including bills on making housing a state policy, directing a study on real property tax saturation, requiring notice to adjacent municipalities for certain zoning changes, authorizing the Town of Huntington to alienate park land for the Huntington African American Museum, requiring CPR training for 911 dispatchers and call takers, allowing the Johnson City School District to create an insurance reserve fund, incorporating the New Hartford Volunteer, Exempt Firefighters, Benevolent Association, creating a Suffolk County real property tax exemption for certain volunteer auxiliary police officers, and extending various local finance and public authorities provisions. One bill, S4504 by Senator Griffo, which would prohibit unfunded state mandates on municipalities and school districts and create a Mandate Review Council, was reported to the Education Committee, with the chair noting opposition. Several bills extending the effectiveness of local finance-related laws were reported to the Finance Committee, including measures on statutory installment bonds, installment loans, refunding bonds, and Environmental Facilities Corporation powers. The committee also reported a bill on county tribal detention agreements and another on base adjusted proportions in the Real Property Tax Law. During discussion of the 911 CPR training bill, members noted an amendment was being worked on to require the training every four years. Most bills were reported unanimously or with no recorded opposition, and the meeting concluded after the final bill was approved.

Transcript Highlights:

• Lost wages had been $200 per week with annual adjustment within your $10,000.
• So, has the insurance done analysis on this to see what the rate adjustment would be? We haven't.
• rate adjustment would be? rate adjustment would be?
• couple of concerns that they had that a couple of concerns that they had that we<01:14:27.160> adjusted
• and and um, agreed with we adjusted and and um, agreed with them.<01:14:29.560> So,<01:14:29.760

Keywords: Meeting Start 00:00:00 Call to Order and Roll Call 00:00:38 Consideration of Referred Administrative Regulations 00:01:34 Proposed Legislation for the 2026 Session 00:10:14 Basic and Added Reparation (PIP) Benefits 00:10:41 Prior Authorization 00:46:15 Measures to Strengthen Kentucky’s Economic Infrastructure 00:59:46, 958, all

Summary: The committee met in a special-called session of the Interim Joint Committee on Banking and Insurance and first took up three Department of Insurance regulations tied to House Bill 256, the Strengthen Kentucky Homes program: 806 KAR 22:00, 22:10, and 22:20. Commissioner Sharon Clark said the program would provide $5 million in grants to help homeowners strengthen roofs, with regulations covering eligibility and operations, contractors and evaluators, and reinspections in cases of suspected fraud. A committee substitute to 806 KAR 22:10 was explained as a technical correction to conform to the statutory preference for in-state contractors and evaluators. Representative Hampton moved and Representative Rudy seconded approval of the substitute, and it was adopted by voice vote; the amended regulations were then reviewed. Clark also said the grant money would be distributed statewide rather than targeted to storm-prone areas. The committee then heard an update from Commissioner Clark on mental health parity in response to questions from Representative Pollock. Clark said the department reviews insurer filings and conducts market conduct examinations, but does not have authority over provider reimbursement rates or to require providers to join insurer networks. She said complaints are investigated and, when needed, teams review claims and data on site to check compliance with parity requirements. No action was taken on that discussion. After approving the November 4 meeting minutes, the committee heard testimony on a proposed PIP reform package from Representative Josh Bray, the Kentucky Hospital Association, the Kentucky Justice Association, and State Farm. Supporters said the bill would apply the workers’ compensation fee schedule to most PIP medical claims, keep the $10,000 PIP limit in place while stretching benefits further, reduce balance billing, modernize benefit amounts, and address fraud and delayed billing. They noted hospitals would be exempt from the fee schedule, while hospital-based physical therapy would be included, and said the compromise reflected negotiations among stakeholders. Some members questioned whether exempting hospitals undercut the bill’s purpose and asked about possible rate effects; proponents said they had not done a rate analysis and that the bill could lead to more treatments within the existing PIP limit. No vote was taken on the PIP proposal during this meeting.

Transcript Highlights:

• > 2.29<00:24:12.480> where<00:24:12.720> it adjustment I think it's 2.29 where it
• adjustment I think it's 2.29 where it says<00:24:13.039> the<00:24:13.200> adjustment<
• 00:24:13.600> rate<00:24:14.000> multiplied<00:24:14.480> by says the adjustment
• rate multiplied by says the adjustment rate multiplied by the<00:24:14.880> number<00:24:14.960
• I do manage a medical building in Farbo, and you can adjust the rate per kilowatt that you charge the

Keywords: 1187, senate, all

Transcript Highlights:

• Regulation of all insurance companies, producers, consultants, and adjusters.
• Separating that out, we have 115,000 114,000 adjusters.
• that we licensed at about 245,000 producers, agents, adjusters in the state of New Hampshire.
• licensed at about 245,000 producers, agents, adjusters in the state of New Hampshire.
• That were able to work on and adjust this system.

Keywords: 928, house, all

Summary: The meeting began with introductory remarks for new and returning members of the House Commerce Committee, led by Chairman John Hunt. Members briefly introduced themselves and their backgrounds, and several noted the committee’s bipartisan, collegial tone. Hunt explained the committee’s structure and traditions, including the division into three subcommittees: banking and business, consumer protection, and liquor commission matters, with insurance now handled as a single area. He also reviewed basic hearing procedures, including decorum, questions for information only, and the committee’s practice of moving bills through subcommittees before full committee executive sessions. The committee then heard an overview from the New Hampshire Insurance Department, led by Commissioner DJ Bettencourt and staff. The department described its mission as promoting a safe and competitive insurance marketplace and emphasized consumer protection, market competition, and affordability. Officials outlined the department’s responsibilities, including licensing insurers, producers, adjusters, and TPAs; reviewing insurance forms; regulating companies and market conduct; overseeing financial solvency; and investigating insurance fraud. They also noted that the department is self-funded through assessments on insurers, collects premium taxes and fees for the state, and returned more than $2.7 million to companies in fiscal year 2024 due to underspending. The presentation also covered the broader regulatory framework for insurance, including the role of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners in promoting uniform standards across states and territories. Officials said New Hampshire licenses about 1,200 insurance companies and roughly 245,000 producers and adjusters, and that the department’s financial examinations are part of an accreditation system used nationwide. No votes or formal committee actions were taken in the portion provided; the session was primarily organizational and informational, with the insurance department presentation beginning the committee’s substantive work for the term.

Transcript Highlights:

• As you all recall, at the last council meeting, the council approved a one-time salary adjustment for
• Based on differences in experience and education, those salary adjustments are being finalized and are

Keywords: 996, all

Transcript Highlights:

• So it automatically adjusts according to what actual expenditures are averaged across the state.
• And I think it's not workable without a COLA adjustment.
• So it automatically adjusts according to what actual expenditures are averaged across the state.
• And I think it's not workable without a COLA adjustment.
• we adjust that for inflation<01:32:30.320> every<01:32:30.560> year.

Keywords: 1189, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• It can't be adjusted upward by the department.
• It can't be adjusted upward by the Public Utilities Commission.
• Currently, adjustments in the program.
• budgets which we review and adjust budgets which we review and adjust approve<00:14:54.880> every
• adjustment would be to the program. adjustment would be to the program.

Keywords: 1189, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• I think we definitely need—we just made a couple of adjustments.
• I think we definitely need—we just made a couple of adjustments.
• I think we definitely need—we just made a couple of adjustments.
• On the 2 acres down to 1 acre, an acre is 43,560, by the way. adjust dates related to that somewhat,
• adjust dates related to that somewhat, but<01:34:10.480> it<01:34:10.600> should<01:34:

Keywords: 1187, senate, all

Transcript Highlights:

• And if there's a balance of funds left from the first grant, can we do a contract adjustment from the
• <00:59:05.440> from<00:59:05.680> the we do a contract adjustment from the we do a
• contract adjustment from the first<00:59:06.000> grant<00:59:06.400> so<00:59:06.559>
• We don't want to expend every dollar at the front end and then not have an inflation adjuster for rent
• We don't want to expend every dollar at the front end and then not have an inflation adjuster for rent

Bills: SF2434

Keywords: housing, development fund, affordable housing, Minnesota Housing Finance Agency, expenditure provisions

Transcript Highlights:

• Uh, and because of that ambiguity, it was felt to be able to adjust the bill to be able to balance the
• Uh, and because of that ambiguity, it was felt to be able to adjust the bill to be able to balance the
• Uh, and because of that ambiguity, it was felt to be able to adjust the bill to be able to balance the
• That could be adjusting the schedule to hear this first and then doing our executive sessions in total
• <03:28:02.800> the the board that could be adjusting the the board that could be adjusting

Keywords: 1189, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• They're adjusted for future periods and made to consider changes in enrollment, cost per service, and
• For state fiscal year 2026, adjustments were applied to account for incurred but not reported claims,
• They're adjusted for actuarial rate.
• <00:14:57.360> Adjustments and perspective trending.
• Adjustments and perspective trending.

Keywords: 958, all

Summary: The Budget Review Subcommittee on Health and Family Services met in person, approved the October 15 minutes, and began with a moment of silence following a Louisville UPS plane explosion that was described as a local tragedy affecting many families and first responders. The main presentation was an overview of Kentucky’s Medicaid non-emergency medical transportation (NMT) program from the Department for Medicaid Services and the Transportation Cabinet. Witnesses explained that NMT is a federally required Medicaid benefit, administered by the Transportation Cabinet under a risk-based capitated model, with eligibility limited to Medicaid members traveling to medically necessary, Medicaid-covered services and who lack access to other transportation. They also described exclusions, including certain KCHIP, QMB, and PACE members, and outlined the brokered regional structure, call center operations, scheduling rules, vehicle and driver oversight, complaint handling, and rider surveys. The presenters reported that NMT handled more than 3.1 million trips in state fiscal year 2024, with over 1.38 million trips already recorded in October, and said customer satisfaction surveys were high. They said the FY 2025-26 contract total is about $360.6 million, with monthly per-member capitation rates set by region through an actuarial process and approved by CMS. They emphasized that payments are tied to monthly Medicaid enrollment and that the state draws down federal funds for the exact amount paid, with no leftover balance. They also said most NMT use comes from adult day centers and rehabilitative care such as dialysis. Members questioned the witnesses about how quality metrics and contract standards are set, whether the state had explored alternatives such as Uber Health or other integrated models, and how utilization was calculated. The witnesses said contract requirements are developed collaboratively by Medicaid Services, the Transportation Cabinet, and other agencies, and that studies of other models generally found higher costs and lower approval ratings, with additional research on a hybrid model expected by the end of the year. They clarified that one figure reflected the share of Medicaid members with registered vehicles, while another reflected actual NMT users, and they defended the capitated structure as shifting financial risk to brokers rather than the state. Representative Fleming also raised concerns about oversight, reporting, and the apparent gap between budgeted and contracted amounts, asking whether any unused funds would return to general funds; the discussion ended before a final answer was given.