Transcript Highlights:

• Refer the Committee on Higher Education, HB 103 by toxically relating to the creation and maintenance
• The Committee on Elections HB 2503 by Derasio relating to the maintenance of the statewide voter registration
• record information for certain misdemeanor defendants following successful completion of a period, deferred
• HB 2517 by Barry relating to the applicability of premium maintenance, taxes to Texas Windstorm Insurance

Transcript Highlights:

• or for the Committee on Higher Education, HB 103, by talks clearly relating to the creation and maintenance
• certain voting equipment, or for the Committee on Elections, HB 2503 by de Rizo, relating to the maintenance
• record information for certain misdemeanor defendants following successful completion of a period deferred
• HB 2517 by Berry relating to the applicability of premium maintenance.

Keywords: 1184, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• HB 1026 by Morales of Merrick Maverick relating to the maintenance of certain roads near the Texas-Mexico
• HB 1030 by Shaheen relating to the reducing school district maintenance and operations.
• HB 1134 by Oliverson relating to the prohibited maintenance in certain vaccine exemption records to the
• offense, increasing the minimum term of imprisonment for certain felonies, changing eligibility for deferred

Transcript Highlights:

• These smaller construction rehab and maintenance, this is not construction. Businesses.
• These smaller construction rehab and maintenance, this is not construction, this is painting or replacing
• Happy to have those discussions, certainly would defer to the author on that, but the state fire marshal
• Happy to have those discussions, certainly would defer to the author on that, but the state fire marshal
• well, you kind of answered it, I guess, how would they obtain records related to defensible space maintenance

Summary: The committee heard several bills related to public safety, emergency response, wildfire prevention, and environmental protection. AB 2152 by Assembly Member Mark Gonzalez would streamline CEQA litigation for new fire station projects and add best-practice requirements; supporters, including firefighters, said it would help communities and firefighter safety, while opponents argued the project labor agreement requirements would raise costs and limit participation for small and nonunion contractors. The bill passed to Appropriations. AB 2041 by Assembly Member Carrillo would expand reporting related to 911 dispatcher pre-arrival medical instructions; after amendments and stakeholder agreement, opposition groups said they would remove their opposition, and the bill passed to Appropriations. AB 2101 by Assembly Member Gipson would require human trafficking notices and training at disaster sites and for disaster response workers; supporters said it would protect vulnerable workers, while broadband, city, and county representatives raised implementation concerns, especially in rural disaster areas. It passed to Appropriations despite a no vote from Vice Chair Hadwick. The committee also considered AB 1805, which would require an audit and stronger oversight of the state’s Next Generation 911 project after concerns about major spending and delays. CalNENA supported the bill’s transparency and accountability provisions, and the measure passed to Appropriations. AB 1536 by Assembly Member Addis would tighten safety and public review requirements for offshore oil pipeline restarts and require decommissioning of certain spill-prone pipelines; environmental and coastal government groups supported it, while the Western States Petroleum Association warned it would threaten fuel supply and pipeline operations. The bill passed to Appropriations on a divided vote. AB 1964 would direct the State Fire Marshal to survey home hardening in fire-prone areas and estimate costs; it passed to Appropriations with broad support. AB 1960, also by Assembly Member Bennett, would use a portion of wildfire prevention grants to encourage community-level home hardening certification. The author said the bill would create incentives and broader public awareness, while the vice chair argued it would favor communities that can already afford hardening and divert resources from higher-need areas; the bill still passed to Appropriations. AB 1863 by Assembly Member DeMaio would clarify that people cannot be charged simply for calling 911 or when no services are rendered, while preserving fees for actual services and allowing billing for legitimate emergency response costs; it passed to the Assembly floor. The committee also took up consent item AB 2517, which passed to Appropriations. After add-on votes for absent members, the meeting adjourned.

Transcript Highlights:

• The DSU deferred maintenance, the Senate did not allocate anything; we did to a little over $1.8 million
• Yeah, for maintenance and extraordinary repairs, those kinds of things.
• Yeah, that the for maintenance and extraordinary repairs, those kinds of things.
• Next one, I'm also going to defer to Representative Swantec because he's been working on this: dual credit

Bills: SB2003

Keywords: higher education, student loans, scholarships, capital projects, workforce development, funding, North Dakota university system, 908, all

Summary: The committee met to work through the higher education budget, beginning with a conflict-of-interest request from Representative Martinson, who was excused from voting because of a partnership that leases office space to Bismarck State College. Members then reviewed the higher education institution budget sheets, covering ongoing and one-time funding items for campuses and system projects such as BSC housing, Lake Region roof repairs, UND’s STEM and National Security Crossroads projects, the UND allied health facility, NDSU projects including New Horizons, DSU deferred maintenance and campus security, Mayville’s Old Main, Minot projects, and the regional health institutes. Members also discussed student financial assistance, the professional student exchange program, IT security funding, and workforce/education innovation grants. Several amendments and policy questions were debated. The committee adopted an amendment to make workforce education innovation grants competitive rather than automatically distributed, and then voted to remove language prohibiting those funds from being used to duplicate academic programs. Members also removed similar anti-duplication language from the New Horizons section. They agreed to extend the UND hyperbaric chamber transfer authority to 2027 and clarified language around UND land-sale proceeds. A proposed amendment to add $5.6 million for the Wahpeton State School of Science building purchase failed for lack of a second, and a proposal to restore fetal alcohol spectrum disorder funding to UND was left for conference. The committee also discussed, but did not add, a tuition cap change, a study on the Praxis exam, and several governance-related provisions. The committee spent significant time on broader higher education policy items, including a $3 million enterprise resource planning request for the university system, a $2 million grant program for students who are pregnant, recently gave birth, or are caring for young children, and a $1.1 million request for library age-verification software tied to the Odin system. Members also discussed dual-credit authority for UND and NDSU, a goal for the UND medical school to increase North Dakota resident enrollment, and intent language regarding the commissioner/chancellor model and presidential search authority. At the end of the meeting, the committee approved the amendments and then gave the higher education budget a do-pass recommendation as amended, with Representative Sanford designated as the carrier. The Forest Service budget was also approved, including two additional FTEs, and the committee adjourned after noting it would continue with other budgets the next day.

Transcript Highlights:

• In terms of the third-party evaluation of those programs, I'm going to have to defer to my colleagues
• The original funding has been depleted, but ongoing operation and maintenance, including critical annual
• landowner and is requesting about $4 million over the next three fiscal years for operation and maintenance
• Across the state, fairgrounds face hundreds of millions of dollars in deferred maintenance.

Keywords: 988, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• You know, that there's still things that need to be done with security services or property maintenance
• Our rent does not cover home maintenance.
• Our rent does not cover home maintenance.
• Our rent does not cover home maintenance.
• it doesn't cover lawn Home Maintenance it doesn't cover lawn care<01:10:58.840> and<01:10:58.960

Bills: HF1143, HF1548, HF1340, HF2549, HF2559, HF1673, HF2740, HF2507, HF2461, HF2381, HF2695

Keywords: education funding, unemployment aid, special education, Minnesota statutes, appropriations, housing, redevelopment, local government, trust funds, community development, HF1340, housing infrastructure bonds, Minnesota Housing Finance Agency, MHFA, affordable housing, supportive housing, permanent housing, adaptive reuse, area median income, AMI

Transcript Highlights:

• Maybe this is a better question for the secretary, and if so, please defer.
• I just would like if so, please defer.
• You've got additional maintenance.
• You've got additional maintenance.
• You've got additional maintenance.

Keywords: Meeting Start 00:00:00 Roll Call 00:00:04 Economic Development Projects Funding 00:01:25 Blue Oval SK 00:05:20, 958, all

Summary: The committee met with a quorum to hear a recap of the 2021 special session legislation, Senate Bill 5, and then receive testimony from the Secretary of Economic Development on the Blue Oval SK project and related economic development issues. Staff explained that Senate Bill 5 appropriated five amounts from the budget reserve trust fund for a project tied to a minimum $2 billion investment: $350 million for forgivable loans through the Kentucky Economic Development Finance Authority, $10,639,600 to pay off a Hardin County loan tied to 47 tracts of property, $20 million for Bluegrass State Skills Corporation training grants, $5 million for KCTCS training grants, and $25 million for a KCTCS on-site training center. Staff also noted there were no job-related requirements in the bill itself. The secretary said the Blue Oval SK incentive was structured as a $250 million forgivable loan rather than the state’s usual pay-as-you-go incentives, with clawback provisions tied to jobs, wages, investment, and changes in ownership or operations. He said the project had already exceeded the $2 billion investment threshold, that corporate guarantees were required from SK On and Ford, and that the agreement’s compliance period begins in December 2026 with payments starting in March 2027 and running through 2038. He said the state’s goal after the joint venture dissolution was to protect taxpayers, support affected workers, and preserve future job creation, while also ensuring the money would be repaid if performance targets are not met. Members asked about the workforce impact, the training programs, and whether the jobs targets would be revised. The secretary said the project had about 1,850 workers at the site, with both production and salaried employees affected, and described state-led job fairs, a job portal, and other rapid-response efforts to help displaced workers find new jobs or training. He said Ford had agreed to continue discussions, invest an additional $2 billion in the site for energy storage solutions, and pursue roughly 2,100 new jobs, while the state sought to keep the company accountable for the full repayment obligation if jobs are not created. One senator raised broader concerns about mega-projects displacing small businesses and creating infrastructure burdens in surrounding communities.

Transcript Highlights:

• fund, because they can do maintenance chores and they put it all in one bucket.
• So they're having maintenance problems, but this at least makes the problem more obvious and hopefully
• So they're having maintenance problems, but this at least makes the problem more obvious and hopefully
• So they're having maintenance problems, but this at least makes the problem more obvious and hopefully
• I've heard the name, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'll defer to your characterization of it.

Keywords: 928, house, all

Summary: The committee first held a public hearing and then an executive session on HB 650, a housekeeping-style bill from the Joint Committee on Dedicated Funds. Testimony explained that the bill would remove references to two already-repealed dedicated funds, split the state parks dedicated fund so Cannon Mountain winter activities would be tracked separately from the rest of the parks system, and place a $1 million cap on the robotics education fund so excess money would revert to the general fund. Supporters said the changes were mainly administrative but would improve accounting and avoid timing issues; committee members asked about a typographical error in the bill text and whether the measure was more than housekeeping. The committee later voted 16-0 to recommend HB 650 ought to pass, and then placed it on the consent calendar. The committee also opened a public hearing on HB 585, which would revise the property tax exemption for religious organizations. Representative John Janigian, the sponsor, said the bill was intended to help small churches and other religious groups that own parsonages or worship buildings but no longer have a resident pastor, allowing them to rent space or use property for church purposes without losing the exemption so long as the money is used for church operations, maintenance, or outreach. He described his Salem church’s parsonage being taxed after it was no longer occupied by a pastor, and said the bill would prevent similar burdens on small congregations. Former Representative Betty Gay testified in support, describing prior assessor actions in Salem that taxed church land and buildings very aggressively, while a Municipal Association representative testified in opposition. Committee members raised questions about how terms such as “regularly recognized and constituted denomination” would be defined, whether the bill could be applied consistently to larger denominations with multiple parishes, and whether legislative research should review past treatment of similar cases.

Transcript Highlights:

• I'll defer to you, but generally most of your questions—no, thank you very much, Mr. Chief Justice.
• Why would we need a recurring maintenance cost?
• So we have, what we did was we took 23, 24, 25, and we averaged out sort of the emergency maintenance
• We're asking for $120,000 that we would apply to costs and continual preventive maintenance.
• We have asked for building Maintenance before, and we're still asking for that.

Transcript Highlights:

• maintenance cost to support it? maintenance cost to support it?
• What I don't know, and again I'll defer to Administrator Barrows on this, um, I believe HEMA did get
• What I don't know, and again I'll defer What I don't know, and again I'll defer to<02:39:43.439>
• I'm going to defer House Bill 2439 and allow House Bill 2554 to be the vehicle that moves forward.
• Um<03:07:38.720> I'm<03:07:39.040> going<03:07:39.200> to<03:07:39.439> defer

Bills: HB676

Keywords: HB676, Hawaii correctional facilities, youth correctional facilities, adult correctional facilities, Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, Office of Youth Services, inmate phone calls, prison phone calls, jail phone calls, free prison calls, free communication services, incarcerated persons, prison reform, reentry, family visitation, recidivism, video visitation, electronic messaging, commissions, ancillary fees

Summary: The committee heard three public safety bills. HB 2235 would appropriate $1.3 million for the Military Affairs and Community Relations Office to strengthen coordination on military and defense issues. Supporters, including the Hawaii National Guard and DBEDT’s military relations office, said the office helps Hawaiʻi understand federal contracting, USA Jobs, and military-related economic impacts. One member questioned why the state should fund a DoD-related office while Hawaiʻi remains under-reimbursed on impact aid; supporters responded that the office serves Hawaiʻi communities and helps prepare residents for federal jobs. The chair said she intended to recommend the bill pass with a HD1, a blank appropriation to be filled in the committee report, technical amendments, a defective effective date, and updated office title language. HB 2263 would expand Hawaiʻi family leave law to cover qualifying military exigencies. The Department of Labor and Industrial Relations, DBEDT’s military relations office, and the Hawaii National Guard supported the measure, saying military families often face short-notice deployments, relocations, briefings, and urgent family arrangements that require time away from work, and that aligning state law with federal standards would provide clarity and consistency. The chair said she would recommend passage with a HD1, a defective effective date, and technical amendments. HB 2291 would clarify that certain National Guard Youth and Educational Programs employees are excluded from collective bargaining, rename the program, and codify its Hawaiian name. The Hawaii National Guard said it was a housekeeping bill with no appropriation, but requested an amendment to align the bill with updated authorities and program references; the chair asked for proposed language before the later decision-making. She said she would recommend passage with a defective date and the requested amendment if provided, and then recessed the hearing until 11:30 a.m. for decision-making on all three bills.

Transcript Highlights:

• >> I defer to Department of Energy on that. That's why again I was hopefully clear.
• >> I defer to Department of Energy on that. That's why again I was hopefully clear.
• >> I defer to Department of Energy on that. That's why again I was hopefully clear.
• >> I defer to Department of Energy on that.
• >> I defer to Department of Energy on that.

Keywords: 1191, senate, all

Transcript Highlights:

• Just a note there for our capital outlay and building maintenance and equipment, all.
• you look at the cost of major maintenance, uh, rehabilitation at $450,000.
• for electricity and the cost of operations and maintenance.
• Maintenance, we have 194 positions, um, with, uh, 32 vacancies.
• Um, so FY 24, um, we have complete the completed contract maintenance projects.

Transcript Highlights:

• <00:15:33.040> Kapper and the scope, I'd defer to Mr.
• Kapper and the scope, I'd defer to Mr.
• It would be $500,000 for the energy management system and $1.3 million for critical maintenance.
• <00:43:39.280> So<00:43:39.440> the million for critical maintenance.
• So the million for critical maintenance.

Keywords: 928, house, all

Summary: The committee heard testimony on proposed improvements to the New Hampshire State Police gun range and training facility. Commissioner Robert Quinn and Major Brendan Davy said the range is used for realistic, scenario-based training that cannot be replicated at a standard static range, including movement, use of cover, vehicle-based drills, elevation, and training under elevated heart rates and stress. They said the facility is important not only for state troopers but also for local and federal partners, and that it is used regularly for qualifications, requalification, and special unit training. Members asked about specific limitations and costs. Major Davy said the PSTC range is handgun-caliber only because the backstop is not rifle-rated, and local law enforcement can use the State Police range for qualification. Representative Kazinski questioned the size and cost of the project, and Public Works Director Theodore Copper then explained the estimate: $1.5 million for building and site work, plus soft costs, utilities, design, and inflation, bringing the total to $2.3 million. He said the proposed facility would include office space, two classrooms, restrooms, and heating and air conditioning, and that the estimate was reasonable. The committee also heard from Milford School District Superintendent Christy Misho in support of CTE funding. She said Milford has been working for years to secure support for an applied technology center renovation, that prior local bond efforts fell short of the required threshold, and that the district now plans a CTE-only local bond of about $4 million while seeking $10 million from the state. She argued the investment is needed to modernize outdated equipment and support workforce training, and said the district remains committed to the project. In work session action, the committee corrected a prior vote on the Pease Development Authority warehouse removal and replacement project, increasing the amount by $353,300 to $1,973,300 and raising the agency subtotal to $4,155,300. The committee also approved adding two Community College System items: $500,000 for an energy management system and $1.3 million for critical maintenance, for a total addition of $1.8 million. No objections were raised to these motions.

Transcript Highlights:

• <00:39:02.560> making us to defer if we defer decision making us to defer if we defer decision
• maintenance issues that are health and safety related in my building.
• HBA to work with Guam Moto and the HGIA, so we'll be deferring this matter for this one.
• HB 336, relating to condominiums, will also be deferred.
• HB 638 will also be deferring this matter. This is, uh, sorry, HB 336 was relating to condominiums.

Keywords: 910, house, all

Summary: The committee on Consumer Protection and Commerce met on February 5, 2025, and heard testimony on several bills. HB 918, relating to labeling, drew support from the Department of Health, INDA (the nonwoven fabrics industry), and Hawaii Realtors. INDA said the bill aligns with do-not-flush labeling laws in other states but raised a concern about the six-month compliance deadline tied to FIFRA approval. In response to committee questions, witnesses explained that the bill is aimed mainly at disinfecting wipes, that most products are already labeled nationally, and that the proposed timing issue could be addressed by using Oregon’s approach. No vote was taken on the measure during the portion shown. The committee also heard HB 1482, relating to controlled substances. HPD supported the bill, and Aloha Green Holdings and the Department of Health both said they supported the intent but recommended technical amendments. Their testimony focused on clarifying the treatment of Delta-8 THC, distinguishing synthetic or artificially derived cannabinoids from naturally occurring forms, and avoiding confusion in the hemp law. Members asked whether Delta-8 would show up on drug tests; witnesses said it would test positive for THC and would not be distinguished from Delta-9. The bill was then set aside as the committee moved on. HB 981, relating to attorney’s fees, drew opposition from a law firm representing homeowners and associations, which argued the bill would limit access to legal services, favor developers and contractors, and make settlement harder. The witness suggested instead using existing consumer-protection fee-shifting concepts, and committee members explored whether a capped fee award or a broader attorney-fee rule would be more appropriate. The committee then took up HB 807 and HB 336, both relating to condominiums. HB 807 received support from the Green Infrastructure Authority and the Hawaii Bankers Association, while one testifier urged deferral over unresolved questions about commercial PACE financing; the bank association asked for more time to work with HGIA, and the chair indicated decision-making could be deferred to allow that discussion. On HB 336, the Community Associations Institute opposed the bill as removing checks and balances, while the Hawaii Workers Center and others supported it as a step toward clearer enforcement of health and safety issues in condominiums and rental housing.

Transcript Highlights:

• It establishes provisions for the storage and maintenance of a stock supply of bronchodilators at schools
• of a stock supply of and maintenance of a stock supply of Bron<00:35:54.720> Bronco<00:35:55.319
• the committee report that $11.7 million is requested in the Department of Education's testimony and defer
• and note in the committee report that $600,000 is requested by the Department of Education and also defer
• Moving on to Senate Bill 531, the recommendation of the chairs is to defer this measure indefinitely.

Keywords: 912, senate, all

Transcript Highlights:

• Most of the maintenance of the website was done through the Office of Health Equity (OHE), so we expect
• speak as to whether that is the totality of the resources needed to maintain the website, and I'll defer
• Resources needed to maintain the website, and I'll defer to my department colleagues.
• need to consider, and without prejudice to the merits of this proposal, we would recommend it be deferred
• This is the type of policy-driven proposal that we recommend be deferred. consideration later in the

Keywords: 988, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• I would defer to my colleague at CSAC, but generally we did inquire with our financial aid directors,
• For the community colleges, we would also have to defer to CSAC for the actual amount of applicants.
• I will defer to the California College of the Arts in this discussion to expand on their unique program
• This is all deferred maintenance? Yes. How far back does this go? Roughly 10 years.
• Minimal work on deferred maintenance, yes. How long have you been there, sir?

Keywords: 988, house, all

Transcript Highlights:

• I would defer to the Department of Finance on their out-year. For the budget year, it is included.
• There's no need to defer that future choice. Finally, should...
• to the family maintenance cases was part of the family maintenance cases, but the funding to extend
• to the family maintenance cases was part of BH Connect.
• This item, I'll defer to my Department of Finance colleagues on it if you want more discussion.

Summary: The hearing began with opening remarks on the Governor’s May Revision for child care and human services, with committee members and advocates stressing that the budget should not be balanced on the backs of low-income families, children, and providers. Legislative members and public witnesses strongly opposed the proposed suspension of the child care COLA, reductions to the Emergency Child Care Bridge Program, and the lack of codified rate reform tied to the alternative methodology. Several speakers also urged more support for providers affected by the Eaton fire and other disasters, and called for child care to be funded at the true cost of care and for additional slots to be restored. Administration, LAO, and Department of Education staff described the child care proposal as maintaining existing funding levels while adding administrative resources to prepare for federally required prospective payment changes and single-rate reform. The administration said the May Revision would suspend the 2025–26 COLA and reduce Bridge Program funding to align with utilization, while the LAO raised questions about the size and purpose of the proposed rate-reform and prospective-payment funding and recommended rejecting a Department of Technology exemption. CDE supported continued early education investments but said it would need additional resources if prospective pay were extended to state preschool, and it objected to a proposed reallocation of preschool funds for inclusive education grants. The committee then moved to the IHSS portion of the May Revision. DSS outlined five major proposals: capping provider work hours at 50 per week, eliminating IHSS for undocumented adults age 19 and older, shifting certain Community First Choice reassessment penalties to counties, reinstating the Medi-Cal asset test as a conforming IHSS reduction, and automating the termination of IHSS when Medi-Cal eligibility ends. DSS also discussed funding to implement a federal HCBS access rule and a separate reassessment of IHSS administrative methodology that found counties would need additional administrative funding. Finance said the proposals were intended to slow program growth and improve sustainability, while the LAO said it was still analyzing the package and raised concerns about implementation, county workload, and the potential loss of services. Committee members and public commenters criticized the IHSS cuts, especially the overtime cap and the elimination of services for undocumented adults and people affected by the asset test. Advocates argued that IHSS workers and recipients depend on these services, that county administration is already underfunded, and that the proposals could destabilize vulnerable consumers. The chair closed by saying the committee would continue to fight for child care and would not pause on child care, and the meeting recessed before moving on to the remaining May Revision items.

Transcript Highlights:

• I'll defer to the more senior member of the delegation here.
• Off-season uses allow fairgrounds to generate income, reinvest in maintenance, safety, and improvements
• you, House Bill 2274, and the home rule petition for Wayland, which is House Bill 2272. ...before I defer
• I will now defer to Mr. Bernstein. Do we have the panel? Good afternoon.
• I will now defer to Mr. Bernstein. Oh, Mr. Bernstein, we’re having difficulty hearing you.

Keywords: 995, all

Summary: The Joint Committee on Municipalities and Regional Government held a hybrid hearing on bills related to land use, zoning, permitting, municipal governance, and homelessness. Early testimony focused on a home rule petition for Ipswich to remove a residency requirement for a town manager, with supporters saying it would broaden the applicant pool and help fill a vacant permanent manager position. Another panel backed legislation to change the Springfield Water and Sewer Commission’s governance so ratepayers in surrounding communities would have representation, arguing the current board structure leaves many users without a voice in rate-setting and capital decisions. Several housing and zoning bills drew testimony. Senator Keenan and the Home Builders and Remodelers Association supported a bill to toll the one-year period for acting on a variance while an appeal is pending, saying appeals should not consume the time needed to implement approved projects. Representative Murray and the Real Estate Bar Association also testified on broader zoning reforms, including changes to undersized lots, merger rules, hearing deadlines, appeals, and variance standards; they argued the proposals would reduce delay and uncertainty and help housing production. Committee members questioned whether shifting zoning appeals from de novo to closed-record review would limit new evidence, and the witnesses said the change would speed cases while preserving limited opportunities to supplement the record. The committee also heard testimony on bills to end the criminalization of homelessness. Representatives, advocates, and shelter organizations said local camping bans and fines are counterproductive, especially after the U.S. Supreme Court’s Grants Pass decision, and urged a statewide response centered on housing and public health rather than punishment. Other municipal bills included remote participation in open town meetings for Wayland and a statewide local option, Fairhaven and Mattapoisett charter changes, and Cambridge’s request to use automated parking enforcement and mail parking tickets. The hearing also included testimony supporting fairground zoning flexibility, a Shrewsbury solar siting bill, and an Inspector General bill clarifying county land disposition procedures by requiring written notice to DCAM and a defined response period. No votes were taken during the hearing.