Video & Transcript : 'DFPS budget' :
Page 274 of 500
CA
California 2025-2026 Regular Session
Joint Hearing Assembly Environmental Safety and Toxic Materials Committee and Senate Environmental Quality Committee Aug 11th, 2026
Transcript Highlights:
- So as long as DPR's budget depends on pesticide sales, as long as we refuse to account for true costs
- Yeah, so whenever we go to the communities and we share that much of the department's budget is tied
- Second, if farmers, not manufacturers, are going to pay to double the department's budget, they ought
- Starting with the 2024 budget, DPR increased the amount of grants by five times the previous baseline
- DPR's budget should never depend on continued pesticide sales, creating a perverse incentive.
Summary:
The joint hearing focused on whether California’s pesticide program is meeting its public health, environmental, and sustainable pest management goals. Opening remarks from the committee chairs emphasized the scale of pesticide use in California, the importance of AB 2113 and the sustainable pest management roadmap, and the need to review DPR’s oversight and enforcement relationship with county agricultural commissioners. Senator Blakespear also referenced community concerns in Ladera Ranch and said the California Department of Public Health was investigating possible environmental links to childhood cancer cases.
Panel One featured scientists and legal experts who argued that pesticide exposure is widespread, begins before birth, and can have long-term neurodevelopmental, respiratory, and other health effects, especially for farmworker and low-income communities. They said California has strong pesticide-use reporting, but lacks systematic biomonitoring and better links between exposure data and health outcomes. They also argued DPR and county commissioners should more consistently evaluate cumulative exposures and safer alternatives, and that pest control advisors need stronger training and less conflict of interest. Assembly Member Schultz echoed concerns that California should look at pesticide classes and mixtures rather than only individual chemicals.
Panel Two, representing frontline and environmental justice advocates, criticized DPR for allowing continued use of highly hazardous pesticides, for relying on pesticide sales revenue, and for failing to account for the full health, environmental, and social costs of pesticide use. Speakers said reevaluations and mitigations move too slowly, that DPR rarely addresses combined exposures, and that implementation of protections varies widely by county. They called for tiered mill fees, stronger timelines, more protective buffers, and clearer accountability between DPR and county agricultural commissioners. Panel Three, from regulated entities and agricultural groups, supported DPR’s scientific rigor but stressed the need for predictable registration timelines, more transparency, and better milestones as AB 2113’s deadlines approach. They also urged more investment in pest prevention, SPM support, and farmer access to safer tools. Panel Four, from county agricultural commissioners, described their role in local permitting, inspections, investigations, and enforcement, while saying county resources have not kept pace with expanding responsibilities and new mandates. No votes were taken.
MN
Transcript Highlights:
- Um, uh, we will go first to the budget resolution.
- I will move amendment A02 to be adopted for this budget resolutions.
- All those in favor budget resolutions.
- I know this isn't a budget year, but help me with that.
- You talked about next year's budget session. What was that answer?
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Anonymous threat reporting 3/24/26
Minnesota House Floor Meeting
Transcript Highlights:
- Uh, MDE's current biennial budget includes a carry forward of $8 million from the previous biennial budget
- Uh, MDE's current biennial budget includes a carry forward of $8 million from the previous biennial budget
- . budget. budget.
- </c><00:23:11.760><c> they'll</c> but that's in the base budget they'll but that's in the base budget
- Um, in our current budget, the this.
VT
Transcript Highlights:
- </c> relating to fiscal year 2026 budget relating to fiscal year 2026 budget adjustments<00:12:32.880
- Um and uh discussions of the budget.
- It is also hugely expensive for um budgets in small towns.
- The salt is budgets in small towns.
- </c><00:42:51.359><c> items</c> often one of the largest budget items often one of the largest budget
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Legislative Audit Commission - Audit Subcommittee 11/12/25
Transcript Highlights:
- As far as the bargaining proposals, I will defer to Minnesota Management and Budget.
- </c> each uh officer through the budget each uh officer through the budget process.<00:37:46.800><c>
- I will also say that in the budget bill itself, and you know the biennial budget appropriations bill
- ><c> the</c><00:41:49.520><c> bianual</c><00:41:50.079><c> budget</c> and you know the bianual budget
- :42:00.800><c> hours</c><00:42:01.119><c> per</c> budgeted approximately 400 hours per budgeted approximately
KY
Kentucky 2025 Regular Session
Interim Joint Committee on Natural Resources and Energy (7-24-25) - Reupload
Transcript Highlights:
- </c> we're moving forward um in this budget we're moving forward um in this budget session<00:27:09.440
- cycle uh for Kentucky Fish and budget cycle uh for Kentucky Fish and Wildlife<00:32:18.640><c> to</c
- So 87% in tight state budgets.
- And I know I've been doing this budget process a long time getting ready to go through it again, Lord
- And I know I've been doing this budget process a long time getting ready to go through it again, Lord
Keywords:
Meeting Start 00:00:00
Attendance Roll Call 00:00:26
Approval of Minutes 00:02:27
LIHEAP Presentation and Public Hearing 00:02:42
Conservation Opportunities in Kentucky 00:29:52, 958, all
Summary:
The committee first took up a public hearing and presentation on the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP). Shannon Hall of the Department for Community Based Services and Rick Baker of Community Action Kentucky explained that LIHEAP is a 100% federally funded block grant that helps low-income households pay heating and cooling bills, avoid utility disconnects, and support weatherization. They outlined the program’s components, eligibility limits, seasonal application periods, and recent participation figures, including tens of thousands of households served through the summer cooling, fall subsidy, winter crisis, and spring subsidy components. They also described weatherization priorities, the partnership with Kentucky Housing Corporation, and the role of Community Action agencies in administering the program statewide.
Members asked about Assurance 16, the balance between need and available funding, summer cooling assistance, weatherization measurement, renter versus homeowner participation, and whether federal changes could affect LIHEAP. Hall and Baker said Assurance 16 supports energy-burden reduction through education, case management, and conservation strategies; that funding has generally been sufficient in recent years but crisis funds have sometimes been exhausted quickly in the past; and that summer assistance is primarily electric utility support. They also said weatherization uses return-on-investment testing and that Kentucky still has a large backlog of homes needing service. On federal funding, they said the recently passed federal bill did not directly cut LIHEAP, but future appropriations could still affect it, and any major reduction could leave a gap the state might need to consider filling. The committee approved the minutes and later approved the LIHEAP finding of fact; no members of the public signed up to testify.
After concluding LIHEAP, the committee heard a presentation from Heather Jeff of The Nature Conservancy on conservation opportunities in Kentucky. She described the organization’s voluntary land-protection work and highlighted the Cumberland Forest project, a conservation easement on about 55,000 acres in Bell, Knox, and Leslie counties supported in part by a $3.875 million state appropriation. She also reported on mine-land reforestation, elk habitat work, and the rapid allocation of a $2 million appropriation for the Kentucky Heritage Land Conservation Fund. Jeff emphasized the economic value of conservation for tourism, hunting and fishing, agriculture, forestry, bourbon, and flood protection, and said the group is finalizing a Kentucky conservation needs assessment and related feasibility research.
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Conference Committee on SF1959 5/16/25
Transcript Highlights:
- Um, we will begin with a walkthrough of the budget agreement spreadsheet.
- Chair, I think I'll start by walking through the military affairs budget and then I'll turn it over to
- I will start by walking through the military affairs budget and then I'll turn it over to Miss Roberts
- So, you might get a year off budgets.
- 00:52:44.240><c> don't</c><00:52:44.480><c> cost</c> under the budget rules don't cost under the budget
CA
California 2025-2026 Regular Session
Senate Floor Session Apr 9th, 2026
California Senate Floor Meeting
Transcript Highlights:
- Budget Sub 2 will be meeting in Room 2100, 15 minutes after session ends. Thank you. Thank you.
- Budget Sub 2 will be meeting in Room 2200, 15 minutes after adjournment.
- Budget Subcommittee 4 will convene 15 minutes after session in Room 113.
- Thank you to all of the budget chairs, as this is budget season. Room 113.
- Thank you to all of the budget chairs, as this is budget season.
KY
Kentucky 2026 Regular Session
Senate Standing Committee on Health Service (3-25-26)
Transcript Highlights:
- It is budget negative, which we don't often hear. It is going to save the state money.
- Like I said, it's budget neutral.
- It is budget really what this does.
- Like I said,<00:02:47.080><c> it's</c><00:02:47.200><c> budget</c><00:02:47.520><c> neutral.
- It would not said, it's budget neutral.
Summary:
The committee met with a quorum and took up a series of health-related measures. House Bill 178, on the psychiatric collaborative care model, was presented by Rep. Kim Mosher and psychiatrist Arthur Oliva. They said the bill would let primary care providers address mental health needs more quickly with psychiatrist consultation, reduce long wait times, and save money. Members voiced support, and the bill passed 7-0 with favorable expression and consent.
House Bill 387, presented by Speaker Pro Tem David Meade, would keep veterinarians excluded from KASPER reporting requirements and instead add two veterinarians to the Controlled Substance Council. Meade argued that veterinary prescribing is difficult to track by animal, that prior efforts created complications, and that rural Kentucky needs the flexibility. A senator asked about possible diversion of veterinary opioids to humans; Meade said there was no substantial evidence of widespread abuse. The bill passed 9-0 with favorable expression and consent.
House Bill 676, by Rep. Rebecca Raymer, was amended from creating a health data utility to directing LRC to study best practices for one during the interim, with a report due December 1, 2026. Members said the state needs a coordinated way to use health data. The amended bill passed 9-0 with favorable expression and consent. House Bill 689, presented by Rep. Amy Neighbors and Dr. Heidi Marley, would authorize a Medicaid state-directed payment program for qualifying hospital-affiliated physician and non-physician services, pending federal approval, with supporters saying it would improve access in underserved areas, support provider retention, and bring in about $29 million annually in federal funds without using state dollars. It also passed 9-0 with favorable expression and consent.
Finally, House Joint Resolution 24, presented by Rep. Kim Fleming, would direct the administration to withdraw a previously required community engagement waiver request because it is no longer needed. The resolution passed 9-0 with favorable expression and consent. The chair noted the next meeting might be April 1, though no bills were currently scheduled, and the committee adjourned.
ID
Idaho 2026 Regular Session
Agenda Mar 18th, 2026
Transcript Highlights:
- brought to us by the governors that we had to basically bring in a policy that would bring down our budget
- And that's just the situation that we're in with our budget and that we have gotten so dependent on..
- . ...our budget and that we have gotten so dependent on a lot of these programs that now when the federal
- And with our budget and that we have gotten so dependent on a lot of these programs that now when the
- It protects your budget, and it protects your people.
Summary:
The Senate Health and Welfare Committee approved the February 19, 2026 minutes and then took up House Bill 863, which dealt with a roughly $22 million reduction tied to a program serving people with disabilities. Supporters said the bill would add transparency and oversight and help remove bad actors, while opponents warned the cut was too large and too abrupt and could destabilize services and harm good providers and clients. The committee voted 6-3 to send HB 863 to the floor with a due pass recommendation.
The committee then heard House Bill 730, a SNAP program integrity bill sponsored by Senator Van Orden. The bill would require more frequent eligibility checks, including quarterly reviews, cross-checks with death, incarceration, labor, tax, lottery, residency, and citizenship data, and lower the asset threshold for certain categorical eligibility. Supporters argued the bill would protect taxpayers, reduce fraud and improper payments, and help Idaho avoid future federal penalties under the One Big Beautiful Bill framework; they also said the state’s current low error rate could be preserved or improved. Opponents, including the Idaho Food Bank and the Hunger Coalition, said the bill would add bureaucracy, create barriers for eligible households, and could raise error rates and state costs, while the Idaho Center for Fiscal Policy warned of significant potential penalties if error rates rise.
After testimony and debate, members split over the bill’s new fiscal note and the added administrative burden, but supporters said the measures were needed as federal costs shift to the state. The committee voted 7-2 to send HB 730 to the floor with a due pass recommendation, and then adjourned because they were late for the floor session.
MN
Transcript Highlights:
- Our annual operating budget is about 45 million, and at that time we had a levy that was falling off.
- So in an attempt to stabilize our budget, we brought two levy questions to the voters on one ballot.
- 03:54.159><c> Our</c><00:03:54.480><c> annual</c><00:03:54.879><c> operating</c><00:03:55.360><c> budget
- Our annual operating budget positions.
- ,</c><00:04:04.959><c> we</c> an attempt to stabilize our budget, we an attempt to stabilize our budget
ID
Transcript Highlights:
- a correction of a problem we've had for many, many years, where the state has been balancing its budget
- Finance and Appropriations Committee that the Idaho Department of Corrections has told you for their budget
- And my concern is that all of our budgets are being, most of the budgets are being, are subject to holdbacks
- The maintenance budgets may end up being the final budgets.
- doesn't pay their bills, as you say, then the county taxpayer is having to find that money in our own budgets
Summary:
The committee first heard House Bill 556, which would raise the state reimbursement rate paid to counties for housing state-committed inmates and parole violators in county jails from the current $55 for the first seven days and $75 thereafter to a flat $80 per day. The sponsor and county officials argued counties are subsidizing the state because actual jail costs are higher, with testimony citing average county costs around $106 to $120 per inmate per day and about $15 million in annual county subsidy statewide. Several sheriffs and county representatives said the bill would help but would not fully cover costs, and they also noted counties lose jail space and programming capacity when state inmates remain in local facilities. Questions focused on programming, liability, and where the additional $3.1 million fiscal impact would come from. A motion to hold the bill until February 25 failed 5-8, and the committee then advanced H 556 to the floor with a due pass recommendation.
The committee next considered House Bill 602, which would bar Idaho courts from applying foreign law when it conflicts with fundamental rights or public policy, while carving out exceptions for certain entities, preexisting contracts, religious exercise, and treaties. The sponsor and a supporting witness said the bill is intended to ensure American and Idaho law govern Idaho courts and to prevent foreign legal systems from overriding constitutional rights. Members raised questions about possible conflicts with U.S. treaties and prior international family-law issues, and the bill’s proponents said those concerns were addressed by the bill’s exceptions. After testimony from the Idaho Family Policy Center in support, the committee voted to send H 602 to the floor with a due pass recommendation.
Finally, the committee heard House Bill 654, which would add electronic storage detection dogs to the statutory definition of police dogs protected under Idaho’s law against killing or mistreating police dogs. The sponsor and Idaho Attorney General’s Office testified that these dogs are trained to detect a chemical compound associated with electronic storage devices and are used in investigations, especially child exploitation cases, to locate hidden devices such as flash drives, phones, and cameras. Supporters said the dogs have already been deployed successfully and help protect children and assist investigations. The committee then voted to send H 654 to the floor with a due pass recommendation.
ID
Transcript Highlights:
- This slide summarizes current budget activities before JFAC and the legislature.
- The bottom table summarizes the budget reduction plans that our agency submitted to legislative services
- The bottom table summarizes the budget reduction plans that our agency submitted to legislative services
- WQPA is not included in the governor's budget that was submitted earlier this session. All right.
- And so we were able to step in and help a county with a very limited budget, find fisheries funding to
Summary:
The Senate Agricultural Committee opened by welcoming a BYU-Idaho agribusiness class visiting the committee, then took up a rule docket, 020601-2501. Senator Lakey moved to approve the docket except for section 112, new subsections 01 through 05, which were rejected because the incorporated-by-reference documents lacked a specific date, creating a conflict with the Administrative Procedures Act. The motion carried.
The committee then printed two RSs. RS 33272, presented by Senator Nichols, would create standards for kratom products, preserving access to natural leaf kratom while prohibiting adulterated or artificially enhanced products, requiring limited third-party testing, setting an age restriction, and clarifying supply-chain responsibilities. RS 33226, presented by Senator Lakey, is the Idaho Direct to Consumer Act, aimed at reducing regulation on small-scale homemade food and non-alcoholic beverage sales, including direct farm and ranch sales, while keeping basic labeling, recordkeeping, and food-safety education requirements. Both RSs were moved to print without opposition.
The Idaho Department of Water Resources, speaking through the Soil and Water Conservation Commission, gave an agency update on district support, conservation programs, and budget requests. Staff described funding distributed to the 50 conservation districts, CREP and water-quality work, and the Water Quality Program for Agriculture (WQPA), which has seen strong demand and funded many projects statewide. In response to a question, Director Weaver said WQPA is not included in the governor’s budget. The Idaho Association of Soil Conservation Districts then emphasized the value of locally led, voluntary conservation, citing education, infrastructure, and wildfire-related projects, and said districts return $2.82 in local benefit for every state dollar invested. No further actions were taken before adjournment.
WA
Washington 2025-2026 Regular Session
Legislative Democratic Leaders Media Availability Feb 3rd, 2026 at 11:00 am
Transcript Highlights:
- Because of the federal cuts, we are experiencing, again, an unbalanced budget.
- And remember, we're always trying to balance our budgets four years out. This revenue is needed.
- We're always trying to balance our budgets four years out.
- That was shown to everyone last year when we had to balance the budget.
- And by the bill, you won't receive any money for this budget.
Summary:
House and Senate Democratic leaders announced and defended a new “Millionaire’s Tax” bill, saying it is intended to raise revenue from the highest earners while reducing reliance on sales tax and B&O tax and funding education, health care, community safety, and other state needs. They said the proposal is a starting point and will likely change as they continue talks with the governor, business groups, local governments, and other stakeholders. They also said the bill is not subject to cutoff because it affects state revenue, and that the Senate hearing is scheduled first in Ways and Means, with the House expected to follow after the Senate version moves over.
The leaders described the bill as narrowly targeted at roughly 30,000 individual payers, with the first $1 million of income taxed at zero and the rate matching the state capital gains tax above that level. They argued the measure is not a broad income tax and rejected claims that it creates a marriage penalty, saying the structure mirrors the capital gains tax and uses Washington’s capital gains definitions. They also said the bill includes credits and deductions to address pass-through businesses, including dollar-for-dollar credits for B&O and public utilities taxes and an election allowing some businesses to pay the tax at the entity level.
A major part of the discussion focused on how the bill would use revenue. Leaders said about 5% would go to counties for public defense costs tied to a new Supreme Court mandate, while the rest would support tax relief and new spending. They said the package would expand the Working Families Tax Credit, increase the small business credit, end the B&O surcharge a year early, and exempt some hygiene and grooming products from sales tax, with the tax-relief share estimated in the 20% range. They also said the necessity clause is needed because of structural budget problems and federal policy changes, and they expressed confidence that voters and lawmakers have become more open to taxing high earners, citing the capital gains tax vote and broader public concern about inequality and federal cuts.
WA
Washington 2025-2026 Regular Session
Legislative Democratic Leaders Media Availability Feb 3rd, 2026
Transcript Highlights:
- We have a structural revenue problem in our budget that was not solved with $7 billion of cuts last year
- We're always trying to balance our budgets four years out.
- That was shown to everyone last year when we had to balance the budget.
- We're looking at our budget, and we have to make sure that we are showing up for the most vulnerable
- And by the bill, you won't receive any money for this budget.
Summary:
House and Senate Democratic leaders, joined by Speaker Laurie Jinkins and House Finance Chair April Berg, introduced a “Millionaire’s Tax” proposal and framed it as a way to reduce Washington’s reliance on sales tax and B&O tax while raising revenue from the state’s highest earners. They said the bill is a starting point and will continue to change through negotiations with the governor, business groups, local governments, and lawmakers. The leaders also said the proposal is intended to support education, health care, public safety, and tax relief measures such as sales tax exemptions on hygiene products, an expanded working families tax credit, a larger small business tax credit, and an early end to the B&O surcharge.
The governor had already said he could not support the bill in its current form, which the sponsors said surprised them because they had spoken positively with him the day before. They said the bill will not be the same by the time it reaches his desk and that they expect continued talks to address his concerns, including more money for small business relief and the working families tax credit. They also defended the bill’s structure, saying it mirrors the state capital gains tax, uses Washington’s capital gains definition, and includes credits intended to prevent double taxation for pass-through businesses and others already paying B&O or related taxes.
Much of the discussion focused on criticism from Republicans and outside groups that the proposal amounts to a marriage penalty or could drive away high earners and tech businesses. Democratic leaders rejected those concerns, saying the tax applies only to income above $1 million, that the first million is taxed at zero, and that the state would still compare favorably with other income-tax states. They said about 30,000 taxpayers would be affected and estimated the bill would raise roughly $3.5 billion, with about 5% dedicated to county public defense costs. They also said the bill is not subject to cutoff because it affects state revenue, and that the Senate public hearing is scheduled for Friday afternoon in Ways and Means, with the House expected to hear the Senate version later in the process.
WA
Transcript Highlights:
- And that's where we end up with a delta in our state budget every year when we have these disasters,
- But that's $10 million that we don't have budgeted for disaster response.
- But that's $10 million that we don't have budgeted for disaster response that will have to find money
- Amy's the budget coordinator.
- that we're working in this the same way that the operating and capital budget works.
FL
Florida 2025 Regular Session
April 8, 2025 - 03:00 PM
Transcript Highlights:
- The Budget Committee will now come to order. Ms. Cheryl, will you please call the roll.
- I want to welcome everyone to the Budget Committee.
- We had to spend a lot of money in our budget for storage because of these illegal of And a lot of money
- in our budget for storage because of these illegal gaming parts.
- And a lot of money in our budget for storage because of these illegal gaming parts.
Summary:
The Budget Committee met with a quorum and considered eight bills. The first major item, House Bill 1467 on gambling, drew extensive debate and strong opposition from veterans organizations and related groups, who warned the bill’s language could unintentionally criminalize raffles and gaming machines used by American Legion and VFW posts for charitable fundraising. The sponsor said the bill would strengthen gambling penalties, authorize fantasy sports contests, preempt local enforcement, and require more reporting on illegal gambling, and he said he was open to amendments later. Despite concerns from several members about unintended consequences and local preemption, the committee passed the bill favorably on a roll call vote.
The committee then heard and passed House Bill 711, creating a statewide “spectrum alert” for missing autistic children and requiring FDLE training for law enforcement; House Bill 1335, allowing Medicaid coverage for blood-based colorectal cancer screening; House Bill 843, making clarifying changes to Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission trust funds; House Bill 1371, strengthening protections for law enforcement and first responders, including penalties for attacks on officers and measures related to false reports and blood-borne pathogen exposure; House Bill 1405, revising youth prevention services for status offenders; House Bill 1053, updating FDLE-related statutes and adding support for retired police dogs; and House Bill 751, expanding health insurance protections for law enforcement and their families after catastrophic injury or death and clarifying fraud penalties.
Several bills were amended before passage, including HB 1371, which adopted an amendment removing a section to avoid fiscal impact, and HB 1053, which removed proposed changes to the capital complex definition. Most measures received supportive testimony from law enforcement, health, or advocacy groups and passed with little opposition. The committee concluded by reporting all of the listed bills favorably and then adjourned.
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Transportation panel considers bill to increase funding for town roads, bridges 3/5/25
Minnesota House Floor Meeting
Transcript Highlights:
- So I just have concerns about this moving forward and how this will impact our budget and our ability
- He said he has concerns about the bill moving forward and its impact on the budget and on the state's
- Representative Tabke said he has concerns about this moving forward and how it will impact the budget
- and</c><00:09:17.519><c> our</c><00:09:17.680><c> ability</c><00:09:17.959><c> to</c> impact our budget
- and our ability to impact our budget and our ability to take<00:09:18.399><c> care</c><00:09:18.560>
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Local government cybersecurity grant bill, HF140, heard in state government committee 2/27/25
Transcript Highlights:
- We all know the Legislature sets the budget, but we rely on our partners in local government to implement
- but we rely on our partners the budget but we rely on our partners in<00:04:18.280><c> local</c><00:
- magic wand and fix this with the giant money tree you all have, but we understand that this is a budget
- 52.160><c> year</c><00:10:52.519><c> and</c><00:10:52.600><c> we</c><00:10:52.760><c> view</c> is a budget
- shortfall year and we view is a budget shortfall year and we view this<00:10:53.160><c> compromise</
MN
Minnesota 2025-2026 Regular Session
Press Conference: DFL and Republican Media Availability - 02/03/25
Transcript Highlights:
- But we are committed to it because Minnesotans are expecting us to pass a balanced budget and to really
- ><00:03:08.720><c> pass</c><00:03:08.920><c> a</c><00:03:09.080><c> balanced</c><00:03:09.560><c> budget
- </c> expecting us to pass a balanced budget expecting us to pass a balanced budget to<00:03:10.159><c
- think it’s also important to remember where we are right now in Minnesota: we have to balance the budget
- We both know what it’s going to take to balance this budget, and it is challenging for us because it